Game Holy Shōnen Trinity 5 (mafia wins!)

[Ekkologix]

its hard to belive he could target 2 players on one night and not have one of them be his ally

like as scum u would normally have protective or w.e abilities to use on ur allies

out of xebec and kvothe, xebec looks infinitly many times worse

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

well why did he redirect stuff to u then? like what if he redirected vig shots to u? that would super kill the vig, but the reverse is also true i guess

i dont even know if we should belive that claim but its the action i saw on night 3 and i thought u were lying and targeted him with something

turns out he was the one confirming that he targeted u, so how do u explain that? did he protect u?

I didn'ttarget anyone until today. He could have redirected investigation action, defensive action which didn't affect me at all since I didn't do anything so how coukd you roleblock someone who didn't do any night action? Or no body targeted Shrike so Shrike didn't redirect any action to me.

 

[Ekkologix]

aight everytime i am online u guys go off lol. i go sleep soon then

i still suggest we put hayumi as first and shrike as 2nd on the wagons

shrike might aswell be unlynchable with all these abilities, and hayumi can save himsef from a close wagon as we saw

ur call guys, but i would like it if u would atleast take my advice this one time lol

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

@Shrike why did you target me?

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

its hard to belive he could target 2 players on one night and not have one of them be his ally

like as scum u would normally have protective or w.e abilities to use on ur allies

out of xebec and kvothe, xebec looks infinitly many times worse

???

if shrike is scum, why are you saying what he is saying the truth? you saw xebec and shrike, no one can confirm he watched me or did anything with me

 

[Ekkologix]

I didn'ttarget anyone until today. He could have redirected investigation action, defensive action which didn't affect me at all since I didn't do anything so how coukd you roleblock someone who didn't do any night action? Or no body targeted Shrike so Shrike didn't redirect any action to me.

w8 did u target someone today?

but ur claim is ur passive works when u r lynched and ur active can only be used when u r killed

did u just slip using an ability today?

r u gna start pulling abilities off your ass too?? are u the one that burned cypher to death so hard with an explosion that she is janitored now mr. deidara??

dont think i dont pay attention to stuff cuz i fluff around. im sure u said u got no actives unless killed lol

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

w8 did u target someone today?

but ur claim is ur passive works when u r lynched and ur active can only be used when u r killed

did u just slip using an ability today?

r u gna start pulling abilities off your ass too?? are u the one that burned cypher to death so hard with an explosion that she is janitored now mr. deidara??

dont think i dont pay attention to stuff cuz i fluff around. im sure u said u got no actives unless killed lol

Nope. I didn't do anything to night. From N1 until today N4 or N5 I didn't do any night action.

 

[Ekkologix]

???

if shrike is scum, why are you saying what he is saying the truth? you saw xebec and shrike, no one can confirm he watched me or did anything with me

read again im saying shrike is either lying about redirecting stuff to xebec and instead he sent a protect his way

OR he is actually saying the truth and he is trying to move vigshots or lynch away from him to xebec in case he is lynched so they can use xebec's revenge kill ability

 

[Ekkologix]

Nope. I didn't do anything to night. From N1 until today N4 or N5 I didn't do any night action.

then what does this mean?

I didn'ttarget anyone until today. He could have redirected investigation action, defensive action which didn't affect me at all since I didn't do anything so how coukd you roleblock someone who didn't do any night action? Or no body targeted Shrike so Shrike didn't redirect any action to me.

idk if ur slipping and its a funny coincidence, but ur role is is explosive and its mentioned that cypher got rekt so hard that her body is gone

u used a 1 shot janitor kill? let me guess, shrike was highly suspected so u did the kill instead of him to be safe?

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

then what does this mean?



idk if ur slipping and its a funny coincidence, but ur role is is explosive and its mentioned that cypher got rekt so hard that her body is gone

u used a 1 shot janitor kill? let me guess, shrike was highly suspected so u did the kill instead of him to be safe?

I think you can not read or trying to twist what I said. I said until today which include day phase today or night phase last night I didn't do anything. So from beginning until today I didn't do anything.

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

read again im saying shrike is either lying about redirecting stuff to xebec and instead he sent a protect his way

OR he is actually saying the truth and he is trying to move vigshots or lynch away from him to xebec in case he is lynched so they can use xebec's revenge kill ability

i meant about me ningen

anyways, i'll speak of my abilities if necessary. but you know I'm Temari so you can take a guess of what my passives are

 

[Ekkologix]

I think you can not read or trying to twist what I said. I said until today which include day phase today or night phase last night I didn't do anything. So from beginning until today I didn't do anything.

im pretty sure i can read

this is like how u supposedly just "slipped" and u corrected urself on day 2 iirc when u revealed ur abilities by adding more bs to it

at first u said u avenge ur lynch by killing the last voter then slipped into saying u can choose the target, and were forced to make a bs claim of being able to kill anyone if u r killed at night

i mean might aswell be able to choose one of ur voters too on a lynch lmao

 

[Ekkologix]

i meant about me ningen

anyways, i'll speak of my abilities if necessary. but you know I'm Temari so you can take a guess of what my passives are

yea i figured. which is why again i think u might have actually survived a poison shot maybe, or the poison kills after 2 cycles

also i am a tenten stan so ik more than enough what this ningen temari can do

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

yea i figured. which is why again i think u might have actually survived a poison shot maybe, or the poison kills after 2 cycles

also i am a tenten stan so ik more than enough what this ningen temari can do

i too am a tenten stan

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

im pretty sure i can read

this is like how u supposedly just "slipped" and u corrected urself on day 2 iirc when u revealed ur abilities by adding more bs to it

at first u said u avenge ur lynch by killing the last voter then slipped into saying u can choose the target, and were forced to make a bs claim of being able to kill anyone if u r killed at night

i mean might aswell be able to choose one of ur voters too on a lynch lmao

No you cannot read. I no need to say from the beginning until today to make you understand I didn't do anything all night. Just saving didn't do anything until today is enough. You are terying so hard to twist what I said to suit tour narrative.

It was my passive I can take my last voter who me. Melontonin askes me what did I do last night D2. I explained my active which is I can superkill someone if I am murdered.

 

[Ekkologix]

i can take one for the team if u ningens wont

put shrike and xebec as wagons and have me last vote on xebec in case something goes wrong with shrike lynch (i would still prefer hayumi over both tbh)

i'll follow on hero's footsteps

 

[Ekkologix]

i too am a tenten stan

tenten is the kinda the usopp of naruto

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

i can take one for the team if u ningens wont

put shrike and xebec as wagons and have me last vote on xebec in case something goes wrong with shrike lynch (i would still prefer hayumi over both tbh)

i'll follow on hero's footsteps

You just can not read

 

[Ekkologix]

No you cannot read. I no need to say from the beginning until today to make you understand I didn't do anything all night. Just saving didn't do anything until today is enough. You are terying so hard to twist what I said to suit tour narrative.

It was my passive I can take my last voter who me. Melontonin askes me what did I do last night D2. I explained my active which is I can superkill someone if I am murdered.

u can ask anyone that sentence sounded like u r saying u didnt use an ability but u did today. i am no english major myself and i wont really hold u up on grammer and spelling cuz i make fk tonnoes of mistakes on that too

but still u have been doing nothing but getting defensive and coasting the entire game man. and ask some mechanic stuff

surprised u didnt even talk about the janitor kill

ur way off ur town meta tbh. u make really good points as town and u r missing those this game

 

[Ekkologix]

You just can not read

dude sure can u tell me who u want gone the most today? who are ur scum and town reads. stop coasting and only replying when we ask u

 

[Ekkologix]

im going to sleep now will continue later gn ningens

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

dude sure can u tell me who u want gone the most today? who are ur scum and town reads. stop coasting and only replying when we ask u

Town:
Juan
JW

Scum:
Shrike. But when he asked JW why didn't JW invite him to mason chat makes me rethink.

Alibaba. He might have Crocodile role if Strike is another character. Which means prisoner who poisoned Natalija. I don't think Crocodile can gift ability

 

[Ekkologix]

Town:
Juan
JW

Scum:
Shrike. But when he asked JW why didn't JW invite him to mason chat makes me rethink.

Alibaba. He might have Crocodile role if Strike is another character. Which means prisoner who poisoned Natalija. I don't think Crocodile can gift ability

wow the originality in these reads

we're gna have alot to talk about so just hang on im tired af rn

pce lol

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

wow the originality in these reads

we're gna have alot to talk about so just hang on im tired af rn

pce lol

If there is someone with Crocodile character then that player must be poisoner who poisoned Natalija. I said this since the beginning of this dp.

u can ask anyone that sentence sounded like u r saying u didnt use an ability but u did today. i am no english major myself and i wont really hold u up on grammer and spelling cuz i make fk tonnoes of mistakes on that too

but still u have been doing nothing but getting defensive and coasting the entire game man. and ask some mechanic stuff

surprised u didnt even talk about the janitor kill

ur way off ur town meta tbh. u make really good points as town and u r missing those this game

Disagree. I didn't do anything u too today=from the beginning until today which includes last night I didn't do anything. Not hard to understand. Actually right now Im tebing to figure out if today is another fuckery just kuke yesterday where Melodie and Juan were town even though they visited SinRaven and SinRaven died flipping town.

Wonder why did Shrike ask JW why didn't JW invite him to mason chat? I prefer to vote player with Crocodile character which is obvious poisoner who poisoned Natalija. If Shrike id Crocodile then he is scum. If not then Alibaba. Shrike and Alibaba havrn't claimed characters IIRC.

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

@Shrike @Alibaba Saluja Can you two claim your characters

 

[Shrike]

Well, here we are.

Losing the game ain't shit, but breaking @Kvothe Kingkiller heart and making @Go D. Usopp look totally mad is a nono.

JW is the "masoner", actually a scum leader. I have been wondering all game 1)why isn't he more useful to town, I mentioned in my long ass post about how I'd shoot him if not for Nat claim just because of his "I am mason lul" and then not doing anything at all. 2)why did no one try to kill him when he was a confirmed town to everyone to stop masoner abilities and for some reason, as he kept claiming, spent several roleblocks on him.

Finally, now "posion" makes sense. Coming from a closest person to Natalija.

JW
Juan
Alibaba

I got you.

And your forth is...

Hayumi for that lynch D1.

@Dragon D Xebec @Kvothe Kingkiller @Vivo Diez @Go D. Usopp

Here I am, and I will quake this world

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

We need to wait for Alibaba claim. If he's not Crocodile then JW is Crocodile but he's mason too who was confirmed by Natalija.

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

Usopp wanted to surprise Alibaba about who his character is means Alibaba doesn't know Usopp character. So both of them could be town or one is mafia while the other is town.

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

Well, here we are.

Losing the game ain't shit, but breaking @Kvothe Kingkiller heart and making @Go D. Usopp look totally mad is a nono.

JW is the "masoner", actually a scum leader. I have been wondering all game 1)why isn't he more useful to town, I mentioned in my long ass post about how I'd shoot him if not for Nat claim just because of his "I am mason lul" and then not doing anything at all. 2)why did no one try to kill him when he was a confirmed town to everyone to stop masoner abilities and for some reason, as he kept claiming, spent several roleblocks on him.

Finally, now "posion" makes sense. Coming from a closest person to Natalija.

JW
Juan
Alibaba

I got you.

And your forth is...

Hayumi for that lynch D1.

@Dragon D Xebec @Kvothe Kingkiller @Vivo Diez @Go D. Usopp

Here I am, and I will quake this world

Two questions:
Why did you target me?
Why did you target Alibaba last night? According to Usopp, you and Alibaba interacted.

 

[Shrike]

Two questions:
Why did you target me?
Why did you target Alibaba last night? According to Usopp, you and Alibaba interacted.

I didn't target you, I just redirected kills thrown at me to you to at least that ability of yours and take scum down.
I roleblocked Alibaba because he is a little scum

 

[Shrike]

I didn't target you, I just redirected kills thrown at me to you to at least that ability of yours and take scum down.
I roleblocked Alibaba because he is a little scum

But nothing was thrown at me that night, essentially wasting my ability.

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

But nothing was thrown at me that night, essentially wasting my ability.

How do you know nothing was thrown at you?

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

Well, here we are.

Losing the game ain't shit, but breaking @Kvothe Kingkiller heart and making @Go D. Usopp look totally mad is a nono.

JW is the "masoner", actually a scum leader. I have been wondering all game 1)why isn't he more useful to town, I mentioned in my long ass post about how I'd shoot him if not for Nat claim just because of his "I am mason lul" and then not doing anything at all. 2)why did no one try to kill him when he was a confirmed town to everyone to stop masoner abilities and for some reason, as he kept claiming, spent several roleblocks on him.

Finally, now "posion" makes sense. Coming from a closest person to Natalija.

JW
Juan
Alibaba

I got you.

And your forth is...

Hayumi for that lynch D1.

@Dragon D Xebec @Kvothe Kingkiller @Vivo Diez @Go D. Usopp

Here I am, and I will quake this world

last minute desperation i see

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

with a lot of people sussing ali, Im thinking my read on him might be wrong. Either that or its distancing but I havent seen him yet. Hope he shows up

 

[青月光]

This is why I want to be indie. Or a Town with 10 vote power so I can solo the game.
Being dependent on teammates is not my stuff.

Here you go:

- I was blocked

- My character is Shihōin Yoruichi. that female ninja girl from Bleach who's friends with Urahaha

Since going into mental mazes is not really my stuff I'll leave it here once and not gonna fight against the tide.

Firstly and foremost "The Devil's in the details". People gloss over details and want grandeur "proof" and you'll never get anywhere.

My intuition told me that Shrike and Vivo are scum. Thi is 100% true and what I believe. Because I really like to be right using my intuition, I care more for this to be right than to win the game. This is the same as in ToG where I intuitively got right LM, Sin and Cooler

The other two I believe are Usopp because it felt like he was the same as ToG and nfc for overral posting.

Since I care more about being right about who the scum team is and not winning the game, if you want to vote me go ahead.


I'll Give you guys a pro tip/another clue:

with a lot of people sussing ali,

Guess when it started going strong ---> when I said Shrike and Vivo were scum then magically poof Ali is scum.

This is all folks. If you want to lose disregard this post. And I won't be posting more here.

Good luck fellow townies.

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

This is why I want to be indie.

So you are not indie?

Or a Town with 10 vote power so I can solo the game

So you are not town too?

Being dependent on teammates is not my stuff.

So you have team mate? Scum?

My character is Shihōin Yoruichi.

Is this fake claim to Crocodile character?

 

[Ekkologix]

Well, here we are.

Losing the game ain't shit, but breaking @Kvothe Kingkiller heart and making @Go D. Usopp look totally mad is a nono.

JW is the "masoner", actually a scum leader. I have been wondering all game 1)why isn't he more useful to town, I mentioned in my long ass post about how I'd shoot him if not for Nat claim just because of his "I am mason lul" and then not doing anything at all. 2)why did no one try to kill him when he was a confirmed town to everyone to stop masoner abilities and for some reason, as he kept claiming, spent several roleblocks on him.

Finally, now "posion" makes sense. Coming from a closest person to Natalija.

JW
Juan
Alibaba

I got you.

And your forth is...

Hayumi for that lynch D1.

@Dragon D Xebec @Kvothe Kingkiller @Vivo Diez @Go D. Usopp

Here I am, and I will quake this world

you got a roleblock now too lmao

imma be honest with ya. no matter how i look at it no way ur role is town bro

its too dem strong. stronger than mei, and u just keep adding more to it

i wonder if u rly have all these abilities or u r claiming ur teammates abilities

also imma note this bus attempt to Alibaba, if not xebec then alibaba is the one janitoring cypher and ur role block on him is fake

 

[Ekkologix]

@Shrike

how ironic tho, few weeks ago u were pushing my ass as blackbeard and now the tables have turned lol

[vote lynch shrike]

*Teleports behind you*
"nothing personal kid"

 

[Ekkologix]

also @Alibaba Saluja im teleporting behind u next day

if u dont kill me that is

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

also @Alibaba Saluja im teleporting behind u next day

if u dont kill me that is

Did you see my reply to Alibaba last post? Do you think he slipped?

 

[Ekkologix]

This is why I want to be indie. Or a Town with 10 vote power so I can solo the game.
Being dependent on teammates is not my stuff.

Here you go:

- I was blocked

- My character is Shihōin Yoruichi. that female ninja girl from Bleach who's friends with Urahaha

Since going into mental mazes is not really my stuff I'll leave it here once and not gonna fight against the tide.

Firstly and foremost "The Devil's in the details". People gloss over details and want grandeur "proof" and you'll never get anywhere.

My intuition told me that Shrike and Vivo are scum. Thi is 100% true and what I believe. Because I really like to be right using my intuition, I care more for this to be right than to win the game. This is the same as in ToG where I intuitively got right LM, Sin and Cooler

The other two I believe are Usopp because it felt like he was the same as ToG and nfc for overral posting.

Since I care more about being right about who the scum team is and not winning the game, if you want to vote me go ahead.


I'll Give you guys a pro tip/another clue:



Guess when it started going strong ---> when I said Shrike and Vivo were scum then magically poof Ali is scum.

This is all folks. If you want to lose disregard this post. And I won't be posting more here.

Good luck fellow townies.

welp

 

[Ekkologix]

Did you see my reply to Alibaba last post? Do you think he slipped?

i think he is actually crocodile and not soifon

croc and blackbeard would make alot of sense to be together

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

Usopp wanted to surprise Alibaba who his character is-->Alibaba doesn't know Usopp character.

Conclusion: Both could be town. One could be mafia whereas the other is town.

- If Alibaba is mafia, Usopp is 100% town.
- If Alibaba is town, Usopp could be mafia, could be town.

If Shrike flips mafia, JW and Juan are confirmed town.

If Shrike and Alibaba flip mafia we can have 3 confirmed town. Shrike ability looks scummy and Alibaba slipped or he just did it purposely?

 

[Shrike]

I definitely will kill you all.

And I do mean

ALL

 

[Shrike]

welp

Don't you realize that Ali is scum

I listed them for you.

JW
Juan
Ali

And probably Hayumi

 

[Dragon D Xebec]

Alibaba might be scum but why did he make it that obvious?

He might be want to change the wagon into himself because Alibaba is lynch immune or can redirect lynch or something. Feels like a trap because today if misslynch then town loses.

 

[Juan]

Well, here we are.

Losing the game ain't shit, but breaking @Kvothe Kingkiller heart and making @Go D. Usopp look totally mad is a nono.

JW is the "masoner", actually a scum leader. I have been wondering all game 1)why isn't he more useful to town, I mentioned in my long ass post about how I'd shoot him if not for Nat claim just because of his "I am mason lul" and then not doing anything at all. 2)why did no one try to kill him when he was a confirmed town to everyone to stop masoner abilities and for some reason, as he kept claiming, spent several roleblocks on him.

Finally, now "posion" makes sense. Coming from a closest person to Natalija.

JW
Juan
Alibaba

I got you.

And your forth is...

Hayumi for that lynch D1.

@Dragon D Xebec @Kvothe Kingkiller @Vivo Diez @Go D. Usopp

Here I am, and I will quake this world

> juan is the godfather!!!!
> actually juan is town
> oh uh shit okay then you're the mafia leader!!!!!!!

 

[Shrike]

> juan is the godfather!!!!
> actually juan is town
> oh uh shit okay then you're the mafia leader!!!!!!!

I never said Juan is town. Can't wait to see you die

 

[Juan]

I never said Juan is town. Can't wait to see you die

who's talking about you

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

This is why I want to be indie. Or a Town with 10 vote power so I can solo the game.
Being dependent on teammates is not my stuff.

Here you go:

- I was blocked

- My character is Shihōin Yoruichi. that female ninja girl from Bleach who's friends with Urahaha

Since going into mental mazes is not really my stuff I'll leave it here once and not gonna fight against the tide.

Firstly and foremost "The Devil's in the details". People gloss over details and want grandeur "proof" and you'll never get anywhere.

My intuition told me that Shrike and Vivo are scum. Thi is 100% true and what I believe. Because I really like to be right using my intuition, I care more for this to be right than to win the game. This is the same as in ToG where I intuitively got right LM, Sin and Cooler

The other two I believe are Usopp because it felt like he was the same as ToG and nfc for overral posting.

Since I care more about being right about who the scum team is and not winning the game, if you want to vote me go ahead.


I'll Give you guys a pro tip/another clue:



Guess when it started going strong ---> when I said Shrike and Vivo were scum then magically poof Ali is scum.

This is all folks. If you want to lose disregard this post. And I won't be posting more here.

Good luck fellow townies.

so who did you use your roleblock on then

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

also that post reeks of distancing and sounds like a slip when ali mentioned dependent on teammates

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

so who did you use your roleblock on then

let me rephrase since you claimed you got blocked

Who did you try to block

 

[Shrike]

also that post reeks of distancing and sounds like a slip when ali mentioned dependent on teammates

Because it is, you'll see who betrayed you at the end

 

[Shrike]

let me rephrase since you claimed you got blocked

Who did you try to block

I blocked him, and he did try to use an ability.

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

I blocked him, and he did try to use an ability.

dont answer for him

 

[Vivo Diez]

Good luck fellow townies.

 

[Juan]

I blocked him, and he did try to use an ability.

oh so he also has a roleblock!

when will the claims end?

when will this depravity cease!?

can no one think of the poor children!?!?

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

oh so he also has a roleblock!

when will the claims end?

when will this depravity cease!?

can no one think of the poor children!?!?

yeah give me some of this stuff bro

 

[Juan]

yeah give me some of this stuff bro

no

you're gonna have passives only

and you're gonna like it

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

no

you're gonna have passives only

and you're gonna like it

youre gonna laugh when you see my role compare to everyone else

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

if i didnt drop the game I couldve been obito

 

[Juan]

youre gonna laugh when you see my role compare to everyone else

probs

nothing will top seeing shrike's 10 abilities he hasn't claimed yet though

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

@Alibaba Saluja can you at least answer who did you try to roleblock?

 

[Juan]

if i didnt drop the game I couldve been obito

i was about to ask how that was an improvement but then i remembered you're fucking temari

 

[青月光]

Ok ok. One last answering. But don't bother tagging me after.

@Alibaba Saluja can you at least answer who did you try to roleblock?

I was blocked. I didn't block anyone. Actually hoping Mafia would target me.

 

[青月光]

Target me with the faction kill, not the blocking.

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

Ok ok. One last answering. But don't bother tagging me after.



I was blocked. I didn't block anyone. Actually hoping Mafia would target me.

But who was your target last night?

 

[青月光]

But who was your target last night?

Myself

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

There's a reason why I am asking so indulge me pls

 

[青月光]

There's a reason why I am asking so indulge me pls

Ok. As I said previously, I have a one shot roleblock and another ability which I can use on myself.

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

Ok. As I said previously, I have a one shot roleblock and another ability which I can use on myself.

thought you might've used the roleblock but good to know

 

[Vivo Diez]

Hmm...

Who still hasn't voted ?

 

[Shrike]

thought you might've used the roleblock but good to know

He used something, which was blocked. Not sure what. Might have been a roleblock.

 

[Juan]

i think i finally figured out how shrike's role works

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

Hmm...

Who still hasn't voted ?

i think.. ali and nfc? nfc likes to place his vote late

 

[Vivo Diez]

i think.. ali and nfc? nfc likes to place his vote late

or not place it at all

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

i think i finally figured out how shrike's role works

i havent, dont get how he would know his target tried to use an ability.

 

[Juan]

i havent, dont get how he would know his target tried to use an ability.

oh no that part is obviously bullshit

i meant how he has a gajillion abilities

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

oh no that part is obviously bullshit

i meant how he has a gajillion abilities

oh then yeah I think I just realized it now.

hell usopp's blackbeard character in aries game had a shit load of abilities

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

its either that or hes claiming all of his teammates abilities to avoid sus on them