League of Legends Mafia - Part 1

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I think Franky is a very good lead, so I wouldn't want people splitting votes between the two. If we assume some roles have power votes or vote altering abilities, it can give mafia control of lynch.

Franky, as a last effort to get and see your point of view. What feeling did you have about me? Enough that you decided to vote me over Stelios and Persecuted?
 
Reposting cause formatting was fucked.

And? Suprise comes from the unexpected.

Well you better get used to this if you haven't already. Taking lie detects for granted is how town loses. Or taking any information for clears as granted for that reason.

You have ignored anything that's been going on the thread for the last three phases.

Please explain how I've ignored everything. I'm commenting on everything and we would've moved past you if you had just answered my questions.

You annoy me percicely because the more I read you it seems you are trying to intentionally lead the conversation to your own waters. You have somehow convinced yourself that I'm mafia and you keep on going round and round the same questions , obnoxiously, tunneling me.

If I had convinced myself you're mafia, I wouldn't be still asking you questions. Or asking everyone what they have to say.

If you're annoyed that someone is pushing you and prodding you to get the truth out, then mafia is probably not the game for you. You can't be mad at others if you can't handle the pressure.

Big candidate for pantheon by whom Marco?
The 180 thing? Coincidence. Don't make me repeat myself and stop repeating the same thing again and again. So what are you doing now exactly? Wifom on my feelings and my surprise? Are you fucking kidding me?

By pretty much everyone. Have you forgotten most people were associating you with Pantheon for the 180 post? Even if you consider it a coincident, you can't honestly argue that you weren't always the lead suspect for Pantheon.

And don't make me laugh. You're repeating yourself because you still haven't answered my question. Once again, instead of answering me, you just deflected and asked me another question.

My question has nothing to do with whether you believe you're Pantheon or not. I'm asking you why is it surprising that someone questions your lie detect when you know godfathers usually fool lie detectors, and you know you are top suspect for Pantheon.

So after Persecuted's death do you still support I fooled the ld? Are you saying that Mafia has two (2) players that can fool ld?

Instead of answering my simple question, you ask me this. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the godfather can also fool lie detects. Wouldn't be the first game where multiple scum can fool lie detects. Godfathers are usually always capable of this, regardless of there being another role that can do this.

Now, can you answer my question?

Your whole logic is needles and straws in a haystack when it comes to me.

I don't think you know what this expression means, especially since needle in haystack and straw in haystack are total opposites. And both have nothing to with my case against you. Maybe you mean strawman argument? Which is also totally inaccurate in regard to my concerns.

Laix made consecutive posts during that time. He posted from 179-181.
It could have been any of those three posts. Now that I write this I remembered Sinraven's kill. I'll come back on this one. only because you busted my balls that is. fucking asshole

Nope. It landed on 180. This was specifically mentioned in the write up. Post #180. So, once again. Answer me why you think it fell no #180. Mafia obviously chose the post. Are you saying that in the time you posted #166 saying "180" and the time Laix ended up posting on Post #180 (which was about half an hour), mafia decided to frame you?

You specifically asked me as I already demonstrated. If you keep this up I'll start to believe that this is all pre-meditated from your part and then a new question rises again on the motivation behind this.

Are you just plain lying or just not reading? Read the quote you linked and I requoted. The whole post was directed at everyone. Not you, specifically. You just chose to answer it.

fuck off. you tell me.
Why are they voting you? You are role-crashed , lie detected and you have been tunneling me for three phases. Tell me why are they voting you?

???? You do realize I've asked them the same thing, don't you? From my perspective, they're probably scum. Unfortunately, they've not even posted barely enough to get a solid read on either.

right

I picked up the question. You had the nerve to say that you are repeating this because I told you so. I said it's likely. Am I at fault if you took my "likely" and made it a flag?

How is this relevant? You think he's godfather. You even said you think I'm him and fooled lie detector. If you suddenly don't believe he's godfather, then say so. But that won't change the fact that to u already said you think he's godfather.

You are welcome

Read it, too. You accuse me of ignoring everyone else while simultaneously Linkin posts where I'm calling out people besides you. Specifically, people who flipped mafia.


@santi, why not? What have you got against stating your opinion about this. This is how we play mafia. Not by being uncooperative.
 
I think Franky is a very good lead, so I wouldn't want people splitting votes between the two. If we assume some roles have power votes or vote altering abilities, it can give mafia control of lynch.

It would be interesting to see if this comes down to a tie between Stelios and Franky though. Assuming that Stelios is more valuable to them, would one of them stick their necks out to break a tie and lynch Franky? I don't know if they have anyone left with an altered vote power, since LeBlanc had the ability to steal vote power from other plays and LeBlanc is dead now.
 
@belph, possibly. Look the reasons for me stelios are pretty straightforward. What do you think about the 180 thing?

After sleeping on it, I'm pretty sure that was a slip yeah. Stelios is very familiar with LoL lore, so the only reason he should have for believing Pantheon is godfather is if he's already seen the role.

Tbh, I thought the 180 thing was a coincidence the entire time and paid it no mind. That said, casting Grand Skyfall does place a warning indicator for a few seconds on where the mandrop is going to land, so it's not without justification that the post number would have to be revealed beforehand somehow.

[Vote Lynch Stelios]

Feeling good about this.
 
also Belph is 100% town, can confirm this for a fact

just mentioning since I didn't see him in Psychic's list

anyway, I retract my Belph 100% claim because I can't actually confirm anything after all. thought AS joined mafia

You tease! :catpole

If only he read the game as much as he drank...

Belphegoob is not in his usual town meta for sure. I think I've seen none of his usual questions about town reads during game.

Pretty sure I've been doing them all game, actually. Though I reckon it's true that I've been lazier than usual. :cat
 
It would be interesting to see if this comes down to a tie between Stelios and Franky though. Assuming that Stelios is more valuable to them, would one of them stick their necks out to break a tie and lynch Franky? I don't know if they have anyone left with an altered vote power, since LeBlanc had the ability to steal vote power from other plays and LeBlanc is dead now.

Actually, if both are mafia, I wonder if we should lynch Franky first. If Perse stuck his neck out to save him two phases ago, you'd expect him to be a fairly useful role. :hm

Also, too lazy to check but I feel like Stelios was on that VoDe wagon too. :cat

[vote lynch marco]

???????????
 
@psychic, stelios is your town read, I'm your scum read and yet you still vote him? You also voted for him last phase, and not perse or me, IIRC. How come?

I'm just confused. I don't know who to believe between you and Stelios. Maybe you're just both town. Belphe, made a good point. Lore-wise, Lissandra would make a more fitting godfather, able to fool lie detectors, and disguising her role then someone like Pantheon. I think you only came towards this conclusion because you suspect Stelios to be Pantheon and since he was lie detected, in order to support your theory and tunneling of Stelios, you came unto the delusion that Stelios must be Pantheon and must be godfather. :hm

Anyways, I don't like this Franky lynch, but since he's not fighting it or roleclaiming, it just makes him look scummier. So, in order to not divide this lynch.....

[Change Vote lynch Franky]


Again, I implore everyone to take a look at this list :

town reads:

Sworder (Caitlynn)
Alwaysmind (Jarvan, King of the World)
Stelios (confirm via lie detector)
Superman (town or indie)
Psychic - (town)
Shark Skin (town by meta)
Melody - townread
Vaeny - townread
Mr. Waffles (Akali?)
Firestormer - (vayne)

Scum reads :

Legend (claims doc but is still alive? Never save any confirmed townies either)
Laix (replaced Gogeta)
Shy
Marco (town leader but still alive?)
Josuke (inactive but not modkilled?)
Franky
hammer
ace

null reads:

Santi (post more scum!)
 
Unless mafia has another member that can escape lie detection like leblanc. :hm Which I'm sure they do, BUT a character like Pantheon should not possessed such ability. In fact, Pantheon doesn't have any deception ability. So here, lies the hole in your theory Marco. Stelios as Pantheon makes sense, but Stelios deceiving lie detector almost automatically cancel out the probability of him being Pantheon. I believe he was frame by Wad. Wad would be someone capable of such tactics. :hm
 
Unless mafia has another member that can escape lie detection like leblanc. :hm Which I'm sure they do, BUT a character like Pantheon should not possessed such ability. In fact, Pantheon doesn't have any deception ability. So here, lies the hole in your theory Marco. Stelios as Pantheon makes sense, but Stelios deceiving lie detector almost automatically cancel out the probability of him being Pantheon. I believe he was frame by Wad. Wad would be someone capable of such tactics. :hm

Nocturne, with an ability such as Shroud of Darkness, is a possibility.
 
Okay, now, that's the kind of insight I've been asking for about Pantheon for days now. But weren't you also arguing that I'm Pantheon, knowing that I've been lie detected?

I'm gonna have to check up on Day 1 once I get home, but do you really think WAD would've decided to use a probable one shot superkill to frame Stelios in just half an hour? On Day 1, nonetheless? When mafia could've saved the superkill for later?

Also, even if Pantheon himself can't fool lie detects, we can't discount the possibility of Nocturne having fudged the lie detect up. Santi seems to think otherwise but he's being coy for some reason, so I can't be certain.
 
Really it's a question of what is likelier. Stelios being the one who used Grand Skyfall? Or mafia deciding to frame stelios in half an hour using a one shot superkill on Day 1?

I've been trying to get Stelios to respond to my questions properly just so I can make up my mind and this isn't me just spitballing, he has been incredibly uncooperative. I mean, what's the big deal if you're town to answer some simple questions?

Lastly, if you guys really think someone besides Pantheon should be GF, why did Stelios think Pantheon is likely GF?
 
Really it's a question of what is likelier. Stelios being the one who used Grand Skyfall? Or mafia deciding to frame stelios in half an hour using a one shot superkill on Day 1?

I've been trying to get Stelios to respond to my questions properly just so I can make up my mind and this isn't me just spitballing, he has been incredibly uncooperative. I mean, what's the big deal if you're town to answer some simple questions?

Lastly, if you guys really think someone besides Pantheon should be GF, why did Stelios think Pantheon is likely GF?

Tough to say. Honestly I really took the idea of Pantheon being GF for granted before this phase when I started to think of what other mafia roles are left. Like I said before Nocturne seems to me a better candidate.

Comparing abilities we've seen in game Pantheon seems to be fairly targeted (in the case of Liax being killed). On the other hand Nocturne has a more sweeping ability with his Paranoia ability, which to me comes off as more GFish.

And to expand on my point on Shroud of Darkness, I have to wonder if there is a distinct possibility that it may be an ability that protects the identity of the entire faction. Perhaps for a phase or cycle. They could have used it early on with the lie detector being alive. Although something like that would seem more of a one-shot kind of thing.
 
@shark skin, shroud of darkness is what they used night 1 to hide the write up and make us do private votes day 2,right? It would fit with stelios being lie detected and passing, then. This was what WPK had suggested.

How many scum do you guys think the team has? Right now, I have around 4-5 scum reads.

No, that was Paranoia. Shroud of Darkness has not appeared in a write up. I looked up Nocturne's LoL abilities and Shroud of Darkness stood out to me as something that could possibly screw up lie detection.

Although Nitty interestingly described the state of the game under Paranoia as being "shrouded in darkness". So I wonder if he may have combined the two abilities or if mafia may have also used Shroud of Darkness in conjunction with Paranoia. Just that Shroud of Darkness wasn't out and out named in the writeup.

Write up in question:
 
"My theory". Bitch, I've been saying this for three phases now. How sad is it that I still think Stelios could flip town?

No, that was Paranoia. Shroud of Darkness has not appeared in a write up. I looked up Nocturne's LoL abilities and Shroud of Darkness stood out to me as something that could possibly screw up lie detection.

Although Nitty interestingly described the state of the game under Paranoia as being "shrouded in darkness". So I wonder if he may have combined the two abilities or if mafia may have also used Shroud of Darkness in conjunction with Paranoia. Just that Shroud of Darkness wasn't out and out named in the writeup.

Write up in question:

Yeah, that "shrouded in darkness" threw me off. But I can't imagine Nocturne having an actual shrouded in darkness ability and yet nitty describing paranoia as shrouded in darkness.

I think it's likely that he combined the two. Or maybe mafia used both abilities together but the second ability doesn't have its own write up.
 
"My theory". Bitch, I've been saying this for three phases now. How sad is it that I still think Stelios could flip town?



Yeah, that "shrouded in darkness" threw me off. But I can't imagine Nocturne having an actual shrouded in darkness ability and yet nitty describing paranoia as shrouded in darkness.

I think it's likely that he combined the two. Or maybe mafia used both abilities together but the second ability doesn't have its own write up.

Exactly. It'd be kind of pointless for such an ability to exist if it were to appear in a write up. I don't think its just coincidence that Nitty described it that way.
 
Lol mb, I thought your theory was just the 180 thing. Does it show that I've barely skimmed any of your posts that are longer than a few paragraphs? :catpole

Re: the possibility of Stelios being town, beforehand I had just tossed Stelios into my townfirmed pile and stopped thinking about him, but this is a pretty flagrant slip to me. He knows the lore at least as well as I do, and I would've given Pantheon something like a 5% chance of being gf. :cat
 
8-10 seems like quite a lot though. I've never really created a game or even concerned myself too much with game mechanics, but what's the typical balance?

Generally, hosts go with around 1/4th as scum but it can differ greatly depending on how many factions and indies are present. And how powerful individual members is.

Lol mb, I thought your theory was just the 180 thing. Does it show that I've barely skimmed any of your posts that are longer than a few paragraphs? :catpole

I've basically pointed out every tiny bit that makes stelios scummy. Yeah, it shows that you ain't been keeping up properly. You're one of those conditional reads of mine for now. Where I think you're town but my mind might change depending on how my current suspects flip.

Re: the possibility of Stelios being town, beforehand I had just tossed Stelios into my townfirmed pile and stopped thinking about him, but this is a pretty flagrant slip to me. He knows the lore at least as well as I do, and I would've given Pantheon something like a 5% chance of being gf. :cat

What do you think about the 180 thing though? Do you think it likely mafia decided within half an hour to use a probable 1shot superkill on Day 1 just to frame stelios?

I realise that the book on Stelios is that he appears scummy as hell even when town, but as far as I'm aware this is based on playstyle and lack of willingness to cooperative, rather than accidentally letting on that he knows more than he should. :hm

There's also the language barrier. There's often misinterpretations in both parties. Him misinterpreting the people questioning him and vice versa. Though I think sometimes he abuses this knowledge as scum.
 
Vote count

Firestormer - Franky
Melodie - Franky
Psychic - Franky > Marco > Stelios > Franky
Stelios - Franky
Marco - Franky
Shy - Marco
sworder - Franky
Mr. Waffles - Franky
Vae - Stelios
Belphegoob - Stelios > Franky
Superman - Marco
Shark Skin - Franky
Legend - Franky

Franky - 10
Marco - 2
Stelios -1

Phase ends in 40 minutes.
 
Yea, my concentration took a steep dive a few days ago when I decided to dedicate my life to drawing instead (). I am indeed town though. :catpole

Also in fairness to me, I don't believe you have any lore knowledge so didn't think it was a conclusion you would've reached. :catprone

Re: the 180 thing,
Tbh, I thought the 180 thing was a coincidence the entire time and paid it no mind. That said, casting Grand Skyfall does place a warning indicator for a few seconds on where the mandrop is going to land, so it's not without justification that the post number would have to be revealed beforehand somehow
 
Draven has executed Franky (Lissandra)!

Lissandra
Wincon: eliminate the town & hostile independents

[Passive – Masquerade] – Lissandra disguises herself as a villager, allowing her to scan innocent to investigations.

[One Shot Active – Frozen Tomb] – Lissandra can role crush another player.

[One Shot Active – Rewriting History] – Lissandra has long had her hand in rewriting the stories passed between generations. She can even fool the moderator by falsifying the writeup, including or removing anything she wants. The moderator will post her writeup instead place of the real writeup.

The crowd goes wild! Draven has reached a new level of fame!

Day six ends. Please send in your actions!
 
Okay, now, that's the kind of insight I've been asking for about Pantheon for days now. But weren't you also arguing that I'm Pantheon, knowing that I've been lie detected?

I'm gonna have to check up on Day 1 once I get home, but do you really think WAD would've decided to use a probable one shot superkill to frame Stelios in just half an hour? On Day 1, nonetheless? When mafia could've saved the superkill for later?

Also, even if Pantheon himself can't fool lie detects, we can't discount the possibility of Nocturne having fudged the lie detect up. Santi seems to think otherwise but he's being coy for some reason, so I can't be certain.

In the light of Franky's abilities it's clear to me now why you have been also entertaining the possibility of fudged lie detection and repeating something WPK said phases ago.
It seems like all your behavior has been premeditated. You have been bussing your team mates one after another.
Anyone reading this game can see that most of what I'm writing is basically answers on your questions.
Answers which you are taking them and purposely misrepresent them as demonstrated bellow.

Really it's a question of what is likelier. Stelios being the one who used Grand Skyfall? Or mafia deciding to frame stelios in half an hour using a one shot superkill on Day 1?

I've been trying to get Stelios to respond to my questions properly just so I can make up my mind and this isn't me just spitballing, he has been incredibly uncooperative. I mean, what's the big deal if you're town to answer some simple questions?

Lastly, if you guys really think someone besides Pantheon should be GF, why did Stelios think Pantheon is likely GF?

I didn't think that Pantheon was GF before you made the question. Me replying that Pantheon could be the godfather came as a reply to you.
"Why stelios think Pantheon is likely GF?" It's because Marco asked me. I said it's likely as a possibility. There's no why or wifom around this.
There's no big deal in answering your questions. The big deal is that you misrepresent my words. I've seen right through you since you started talking to me.

Marco has been desperatelly trying to prove that he's town all game long, has gone apeshit everytime somebody questioned him about it (check how he went aggro on Vode and me obviously)
and has been trying to town lead. Every time a scum dies he points out how he's the one that previously said it or was on to them. Check his posts. Every phase. He repeated this last phase again.
It seems like Marco's the one that actually staged the 180 post thing. Which is why he's stuck like a broken and keeps asking "why do you think mafia did the kill at 180". I may not be a very vocal player but these are facts that can be seen through the course of this game. Just check his posts.


[vote lynch Marco]
 
It seems like the rolecrash was falsified and there's indeed a second undetectable mafia player
Marco said:
Instead of answering my simple question, you ask me this. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the godfather can also fool lie detects. Wouldn't be the first game where multiple scum can fool lie detects. Godfathers are usually always capable of this, regardless of there being another role that can do this.
 
I'm not entirely sure thought on what was falsified. The rolecrash from Lissandra is one-shot so that being falsified doesn't seem to really make sense :hm
If the ld on Marco was falsified though there has to be an explanation on how Marco got role-crashed. Legend did speak about town bus driver after all and nobody counterclaimed Marco about the rolecrash either.
 
[VOTE LYNCH Marco]

2HifhGP.gif
 
Belph targeted me AND Firestormer last night

I just tried to kill him and failed

[vote lynch Belph]

How... does either of those things make him mafia ?

you guys sure you want to lynch Marco?

I mean, shit, I don't mind but take that chance if you want. I'll just stay here sipping some nice lipton tea like a real G.

[Vote lynch Marco]

:LOS

This is feeling a lot like Daes Dae'mar. :maybe

Why is no one lynching this guy...
 
I just tried to kill him and failed

[vote lynch Belph]

I guess you weren't bluffing when you hinted bulletproof. :lmao It seems Belphe was aiming for adcs tonight. I knew there had to be one intelligent player in the mafia team, because the kills were spot on. I knew there was something up with Belphe, just thought he was somehow indie again because he was playing very pro town. And now that we know he is Pantheon, we know for sure that Stelios was frame.

Also, in light of the new evidence, Lissandra's rolecrush was real as we saw it in the write-up only once. This pretty much clears Marco as 99.9% town. Lissanda failed to falsify a write-up to save her life, meaning she already used it for another mafia player, one worthy of falsifying a write-up for.....the Godfather. And there is basically only one write-up that was too sketchy to be a write-up : Alwaysmind confirmation that he was Jarvan (This being right after everyone suspected him.) His vote on Marco this phase, doesn't help him either.

Conclusion:
Marco and Stelios are both town.
Belphegoob is Pantheon.

town reads:

Sworder (Caitlynn)
Stelios (confirm via lie detector)
Superman (town or indie)
Psychic - (town)
Shark Skin (town by meta)
Melody - townread
Vaeny - townread
Mr. Waffles (Akali?)
Marco (lie detected and role-crushed)

Scum reads :

Alwaysmind (Jarvan?)
Legend (I don't think you're Lulu)
Laix (replaced Gogeta)
Shy
Josuke (inactive but not modkilled?)
hammer
ace

null reads:

Santi (post more scum!)

Looking back at the votes, there was a time when mafia tried to save Persecuted by voting Marco. There should be 4 or 5 mafia left and I bolded them above.

Alwaysmind, Laix, Josuke, Shy and between Legend and Ace I'm not sure. Sure, Legend claimed Lulu but I think Lulu is already dead. If Lulu was doc, he hasn't save anyone yet as town has continue to die. I've probably listed too many people here, but I can't help it if you're all scummy.
 
In the light of Franky's abilities it's clear to me now why you have been also entertaining the possibility of fudged lie detection and repeating something WPK said phases ago.
It seems like all your behavior has been premeditated. You have been bussing your team mates one after another.

Now, if you'd actually read my questions each time I asked you (I've even bolded them for you and you still ignore/deflect them), it should be clear why I've been entertaining the possibility of fudged lie detect.

Facts:
1. You (Stelios) were #1 Pantheon candidate, on account of "180" post.
2. You, yourself, pointed out that Pantheon is likely Godfather.
3. Godfathers generally fool lie detects.

That's the gist of it. What is so hard in this for you to understand? Even if you disagree about Point 1 or 2, it should still be obvious why others are not dismissing them.

Moving on:

1. What is it about Franky's abilities, specifically, that has made it clear to you why I have been entertaining the possibility of a fudged lie detection?
2. You earlier said that I've been ignoring everyone but you. But now you're saying I'm been bussing my teammates one after another. So, which one is it?

Here's what you're saying I've been doing:

1. I fake claimed a role crush, thus risking a counter claim OR actually role crushed myself, wasting my faction's one-shot rolecrush.
2. I decided to frame you (Stelios) on Day 1 by using (what is almost certainly) a one-shot super-kill within 30 minutes of you posting the "180" post.
3. I've systematically bussed all my teammates and got them killed.

This would be the worst mafia play I've ever seen. Wasting a crucial one-shot on trying to frame Stelios, of all people. Either wasting another (probable) one-shot on myself, just so I can say I've been role-crushed OR not wasting it but just plain lying and risking being counter-claimed. Bussing and pushing for the death of every teammate, for town cred.

Like, I can imagine how you can make a case against someone doing this stupidity, but I didn't start being regarded as one of NF's best mafia players for being retarded.

Anyone reading this game can see that most of what I'm writing is basically answers on your questions.
Answers which you are taking them and purposely misrepresent them as demonstrated bellow.

You actually never answered my questions properly. At least, you're sort of answering one of my questions by finally claiming that mafia (I) have been trying to frame you with Grand Skyfall.

You still haven't answered the other stuff properly but I can see there's absolutely no point in trying to get reason out of you, if you're town, anyway.

I didn't think that Pantheon was GF before you made the question. Me replying that Pantheon could be the godfather came as a reply to you.
"Why stelios think Pantheon is likely GF?" It's because Marco asked me. I said it's likely as a possibility. There's no why or wifom around this.

Now, this is a plain lie. I asked everyone in the game if they thought Pantheon could be Godfather. I didn't ask you. And I definitely didn't ask "Why stelios think Pantheon is likely GF?"

Then you answered me saying, "Pantheon is likely Godfather." All I did was ask everyone about it because I was still suspicious of you being Pantheon.

There's no big deal in answering your questions. The big deal is that you misrepresent my words. I've seen right through you since you started talking to me.

You couldn't see through a open window if you tried, man. Seriously. If you're townie, you're up there among the worst townies ever. Not just because you're not very skilled at this game. No, that's fine. There's hope for such people. But because you're just incapable of looking past your own ego to actually focus on what's important. Because you barely skim posts instead of actually reading them. Because you basically operate in a fictional world of yourself and disregard what's actually happening in the game.

There's nothing to misrepresent. I've asked you certain questions a dozen time. Each time, you have either ignored those questions, straight avoided them, deflected them by answering some tangential question that I didn't even ask, or plain refused to answer them because "I don't answer questions from scum".

Marco has been desperatelly trying to prove that he's town all game long, has gone apeshit everytime somebody questioned him about it (check how he went aggro on Vode and me obviously)
and has been trying to town lead. Every time a scum dies he points out how he's the one that previously said it or was on to them. Check his posts. Every phase. He repeated this last phase again.

Another lie. Can you quote where I've gone aggro every time someone has been questioning me? This is the complete opposite. I've actually been calmly trying to explain to others how unlikely the possibility of me being scum is whenever someone brings it up. No aggro at all. Psychic has been going on about it every phase. When did I go aggro on her? Even when others stated their scum reads on me, I always explained calmly and clearly why me being scum is highly unlikely.

Please show me being aggro to others for questioning me.

Not everytime scum dies. Only when people say things like "you're ignoring everything but stelios." And you know who said that? You and Psychic. It's only in response to Psychic and your's "Marco is ignoring everything in the game", that I've pointed out how I've contributed to the death of pretty much every mafia till now.

It seems like Marco's the one that actually staged the 180 post thing. Which is why he's stuck like a broken and keeps asking "why do you think mafia did the kill at 180". I may not be a very vocal player but these are facts that can be seen through the course of this game. Just check his posts.


[vote lynch Marco]

lol right.

I used a probable one-shot super-kill on Day 1 to frame Stelios. Not just that, but I decided to do it (instead of discussing with my whole team), within 30 minutes on Day 1.

Even if for some reason I'd be retarded enough to waste a one shot to frame Stelios, I would definitely not decide in 30 minutes, thereby giving up any chance of my teammates providing their input on the matter.

I'm a team player first and foremost, and anyone who has played as scum with me knows that I listen to even the most retarded of suggestions and take them into account before sending in actions. I would never send in an action (let alone a one-shot) without most teammates okay-ing it first.

Heck, unless it's endgame, I would make sure everyone on the team is fine with a certain plan before going forward with it.

Like, it's dumb enough to waste a one-shot superkill to frame Stelios. But if people actually think I'd decide to send in a one-shot in 30 minutes (thereby ignoring input from probably most of the team), then you guys obviously don't know me at all.
 
I'm up for Belph lynch, actually, going by this evidence.

As I said to Belphegoob before,
I've basically pointed out every tiny bit that makes stelios scummy. Yeah, it shows that you ain't been keeping up properly. You're one of those conditional reads of mine for now. Where I think you're town but my mind might change depending on how my current suspects flip.

The bolded is specifically in regards to Stelios and Belph.
 
I agree, Mr.Waffles.

If I had to take a guess, its a matter of priority. I'm an unknown mafia player around these parts. For the most part I've lurked and haven't added anything of value where discussions are concerned. I'm what we would call a waste of time. :LOS

In any case, Belphegoob looks to be the main target now so it looks like young Marco lives to see another dawn. Unless if everyone were to change their mind and come after me instead.. :maybe It appears I'll live to see another day.. for now.
 
How... does either of those things make him mafia ?

because Fire was killed

and there is literally zero reason for any townie to target me after I confirmed myself, which means mafia will want to get rid of me

I'm up for Belph lynch, actually, going by this evidence.

As I said to Belphegoob before,


The bolded is specifically in regards to Stelios and Belph.

how does Belph being Pantheon affect your read on Stelios?
 
Belph targeted me AND Firestormer last night

Wait, hold up. Belphe can't be Pantheon since Pantheon only targeted one person...Firestormer. Belpe however is very much the roleblocker, since Fire said he was roleblock EVERY single night. And we know that it couldn't have been a protect since Fire is dead. Regardless, I'm gonna wait for Belphe to show up with some intelligent excuse before I vote him.

And that means Stelios could very likely still be Pantheon. But Marco is clear because we know the rolecrush was a real ability of Lissandras'.
 
I agree, Mr.Waffles.

If I had to take a guess, its a matter of priority. I'm an unknown mafia player around these parts. For the most part I've lurked and haven't added anything of value where discussions are concerned. I'm what we would call a waste of time. :LOS

In any case, Belphegoob looks to be the main target now so it looks like young Marco lives to see another dawn. Unless if everyone were to change their mind and come after me instead.. :maybe It appears I'll live to see another day.. for now.

Dis guy....

because Fire was killed

and there is literally zero reason for any townie to target me after I confirmed myself, which means mafia will want to get rid of me

:hm
 
Wait, hold up. Belphe can't be Pantheon since Pantheon only targeted one person...Firestormer. Belpe however is very much the roleblocker, since Fire said he was roleblock EVERY single night. And we know that it couldn't have been a protect since Fire is dead. Regardless, I'm gonna wait for Belphe to show up with some intelligent excuse before I vote him.

And that means Stelios could very likely still be Pantheon. But Marco is clear because we know the rolecrush was a real ability of Lissandras'.

If Pantheon had targeted me, it wouldn't appear in the writeup because it would have failed. Like a roleblock
 
how does Belph being Pantheon affect your read on Stelios?

I understand your question but I think you're framing it incorrectly. To answer what your question is, if Belph flips Panthoen, that means Stelios isn't Pantheon. So, obviously it'll affect my read on Stelios.

The main thing to remember is that I started suspecting Stelios because of the "180" post, as it indicates he's Pantheon. So, if someone else is revealed to be Pantheon, that pretty much clears Stelios. He could still be some other scum but that's not very likely. His play is definitely anti-town, but this is Stelios. I'm used to him doing this kind of shit as town.


Now, to answer what I think you actually meant. What I'd said last phase was that depending on how my current reads flipped (Stelios, mostly), I would believe Belph to be town or mafia.

Basically, I've been saying it all game, but, even though all evidence point to Stelios being Pantheon, I've played enough mafia to know it's not a 100%, especially because Stelios being uncooperative is perfect red herring for mafia. Stelios is notorious for being read as scum when town. A large part of it has to do with what's lost in translation. English isn't Stelios' native language and it shows. I've been a part of games where Stelios has been 100% confirmed mafia for "slips" which were really just misinterpretations on account of him the language barrier. But it also doesn't help that he gets emotional and takes all questions and doubts against him as slights against him. It starts a perpetual cycle, where him and the people pushing him become completely pissed off at each other, and 2 phases later, lo behold, a bunch of townies just towned each other.

If the case against Stelios was just reads, I actually wouldn't have bothered. He's the kind of player I don't like reading because he always comes across as scummy. The whole thing is motivated by the "180" post and Stelios' insistence to not understand how the "180" conclusion has been formed.

Getting back to the point: Belphegoob's game has not been his town-meta (which is an indication of him being bored, scum, or having a role that he can prove whenever he wants). So, when he suddenly voted Stelios last phase, saying, "Oh, Stelios slipped. Stelios slipped." in regards to Stelios being the one who first said that Pantheon is likely GF, that raised a red flag for me, because:

1. That was hardly the biggest case against Stelios.
2. Belph had a town read on Stelios the whole game and he actually said that "I must be the only person who reads Stelios as town always (even when he's scum), instead of reading him as scum always (even when he's town).

Seems an awful lot like opportunistic mafia to me. The kind that "town-reads" a certain player in order to justify push or vote on some else (eg: the person he town-read was pushing someone mafia want eliminated), but later uses the smallest reason to flip his read because suddenly it's more favorable to eliminate said player (the one he town-read before).
 

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