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Day six lynch Edit

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Ekkologix said:
idk i couldnt steer from u to shrike. i knew one of u had to be scum so defended lind and tried to get one of u lynched

dont think it was bad. went to shrike day 2 so it worked out
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It was awful. You convinced yourself on something that wasn't necessarily true, and pushed it as if it were. I was convinced both you and Shrike were scum, as Shixune will attest to.
 
Ratchet said:
It was awful. You convinced yourself on something that wasn't necessarily true, and pushed it as if it were. I was convinced both you and Shrike were scum, as Shixune will attest to.
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i cant be scum with shrike. i forced his lynch

i read ur interactions as scum v town and shrieks day 2 opener as scum

read day 1 i wanted shrike over u but he had so much resistance

when day 2 came they killed tiffany and tried to implicate lind further, thats how i was 99% sure shrike is scum from there
 
I didn't like the claims on D2. In m opinion, Aizen hunting wasn't really necessary at that point in time. No one was really a townread by most players at that point, and it kind of opened the gates for more weird plays like Ekko's fake claim. And then everyone else claimed.

I think gambits have their place, but I think that doing so at the beginning of D2 is a mistake. There wasn't a strong town read for most players at that point, and there's no reason to fish for Aizen. I don't know what the second fake claim was for though. I can understand the idea of reaction testing, but I don't think that's going to crack most people who make a claim if they don't immediately retract. I think once Flower doesn't retract, Ekko should've retracted their claim. D2 was just an error overall even with the mafia lynch.

I think all claims were a mistake until the masons outed, and that shouldn't have needed to be done in the first place. Claiming was a mistake, and it was properly punished.
 
Tiffany said:
I didn't like the claims on D2. In m opinion, Aizen hunting wasn't really necessary at that point in time. No one was really a townread by most players at that point, and it kind of opened the gates for more weird plays like Ekko's fake claim. And then everyone else claimed.

I think gambits have their place, but I think that doing so at the beginning of D2 is a mistake. There wasn't a strong town read for most players at that point, and there's no reason to fish for Aizen. I don't know what the second fake claim was for though. I can understand the idea of reaction testing, but I don't think that's going to crack most people who make a claim if they don't immediately retract. I think once Flower doesn't retract, Ekko should've retracted their claim. D2 was just an error overall even with the mafia lynch.

I think all claims were a mistake until the masons outed, and that shouldn't have needed to be done in the first place. Claiming was a mistake, and it was properly punished.
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eh its kinda debatable

the scum lynch happened because we claimed and it allowed us to get better reads of other players later on.

also with players claiming, now we know their flips when they die so scum cant fake claim their category.

if we dont claim day 2. a mislynch is likely to happen and then town dies at night without us knowing their role, giving scum more control of role fake claims.

speaking from hindsight isnt the right way to go about this imo
 
Reflections and MVPs
  • Index
    • Reflections

    1.     Fun fact: none of the Naruto town roles, except for the core town roles, made it into the game. All the town members rolled Bleach or One Piece characters. Before the game started, Hayumi replaced a player who had originally rolled Brook. Since the game hadn't started yet, I rerolled that slot's character before giving it to Hayumi, and it landed on Brook again. The RNG gods were determined not to put any Naruto characters into this game.

    2. Nobody except the mafia team knew this, but the mafia actually had to choose one series of characters to play as. Meaning, they had to choose to be the mafia roles from Naruto, or from Bleach, or from One Piece. The mafia did get to choose which series they played as, but they were package deals, meaning they couldn't mix-and-match characters from different series. The mafia chose the Naruto team, and divided the roles up as follows: Shrike as Orochimaru, Iwandesu as Kabuto, AIZEN as Tayuya, and Charles as Sakon.

    3. I was disappointed with how role claims played out in this game. I think the game proved itself to be balanced even in the face of a mass claim, but I don't think that was very fun for everyone involved. Accordingly, I am changing my next game, The Mysteries of Kalimdor in November, to be closed setup instead of semi-open setup as was originally intended. I think it's better to simply not give town the option of role claiming.

    4. I know many of you have been eager to learn what caused the quadra kill on night two, so here it is: Charles sent Ukon after Vivo Diez on night 1, so that's how Vivo died on night 2. Only controlled Natalija and made her visit Vivo, which got Natalija killed too. The mafia used their normal faction kill on Kvo since she was outed as the coroner, and finally, Sigismund as Soifon used his one-shot to kill Lind.

    5. With all that said, the MVPs for this game are @only and @charles101. Only joined relatively late in the game, and had a few unlucky guesses, but persevered to the end. In fact, the only reason Only didn't win last night was because she believed Charles's fake claim, and guessed Charles as Tsunade. Charles doubted himself, but I think he showed everyone, and most importantly himself, that he is a force to be reckoned with. Charles very nearly carried his team to the end, despite his teammates sometimes making that rather difficult for him.    ​
     
    i feel like town focused super hard on mafia in the thread, which is ok

    but also mafia focused super hard on town at night

    we kinda just faught each others rly hard we ignored aizen and the fact that the game went on this long with him being left with just 2 town roles is a guranteed way to win

    i do appreciate LM never claiming but even with that it was a matter of time before aizen guesses it
     
    Ekkologix said:
    eh its kinda debatable

    the scum lynch happened because we claimed and it allowed us to get better reads of other players later on.

    also with players claiming, now we know their flips when they die so scum cant fake claim their category.

    if we dont claim day 2. a mislynch is likely to happen and then town dies at night without us knowing their role, giving scum more control of role fake claims.

    speaking from hindsight isnt the right way to go about this imo
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    You got better reads and a lynch because many people outed their information, but it hurt you guys in the immediate future since you guys killed 1 scum but lost 4 townies during the night. Yes, scum couldn't fake those roles without a CC, but they could've still faked any of their kills, which is what Charles did when he claimed town protect (I was the town protect).

    I think a good analysis does require some hindsight, but there's many games you play before this one where you have experience and you can see in real time things that could (and did) become mistakes. I don't think anyone can argue that the town lost on D2 even with a scum lynch. It made the job much easier for Aizen and even for mafia kills.

    I can see where individual plays were coming during that phase. I don't hunting Aizen and don't agree with the action, but I can see that logic. And I don't agree with maintaining a fake investigation. but I can see throwing it out there for a reaction test and then retracting that. I think the combination of those individual plays were very harmful.
     
    Tiffany said:
    You got better reads and a lynch because many people outed their information, but it hurt you guys in the immediate future since you guys killed 1 scum but lost 4 townies during the night. Yes, scum couldn't fake those roles without a CC, but they could've still faked any of their kills, which is what Charles did when he claimed town protect (I was the town protect).
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    not rly, nitty kvothe claiming doesnt help us PoE shrike at all. they didnt provide info either. shrike was a pure scum read.
    in fact TAC claim on day 3 coming late with no results to back it up lead to his mislynch which didnt feel right but it was played poorly by us. I thought he is aizen so didnt try too hard to steer to iwan.

    Tiffany said:
    I think a good analysis does require some hindsight, but there's many games you play before this one where you have experience and you can see in real time things that could (and did) become mistakes. I don't think anyone can argue that the town lost on D2 even with a scum lynch. It made the job much easier for Aizen and even for mafia kills.
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    wait on the list by nitty on aizen actions. i do agree it made mafia choose better yes. but its only 2 claims/hints tiffany. only nat and kvothe. the rest never had to claim.

    Tiffany said:
    I can see where individual plays were coming during that phase. I don't hunting Aizen and don't agree with the action, but I can see that logic. And I don't agree with maintaining a fake investigation. but I can see throwing it out there for a reaction test and then retracting that. I think the combination of those individual plays were very harmful.
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    its alright im a vanilla role thats useless for aizen to control. i dont have much to lose. me or oni will get killed at any point in the game so rather claim early cuz roles dont flip

    imagine we both die in a night and then mafia fake claims mason.
     
    Role list
  • Index
    • Role list

    1.     @Ratchet as Sarutobi Hiruzen
    2.     @Ekkologix as Momochi Zabuza
    3.     @OniKaido as Yuki Haku

    4.     @Flower as Kurosaki Ichigo
    5.     @Lind as Kuchiki Rukia

    6.     @Kvothe Kingkiller as Doctor Hogback
    7.     @Sigismund as Soifon
    8.     @Tiffany as Tony Tony Chopper

    9.     @Vivo Diez as Riku Viola
    10.     @Natalija as Hisagi Shūhei

    11.     @TheAncientCenturion as Nami
    12.     @John Wayne as Donquixote Rosinante

    13.     @Hayumi as Brook
    14.     @Lord Melkor as Tsukabishi Tessai

    15.     @Shrike as Orochimaru
    16.     @Iwandesu as Yakushi Kabuto
    17.     @Aizen as Tayuya
    18.     @charles101 as Sakon

    19.     @only as Aizen Sōsuke    ​
     
    Last edited:
    Ekkologix said:
    not rly, nitty kvothe claiming doesnt help us PoE shrike at all. they didnt provide info either. shrike was a pure scum read.
    in fact TAC claim on day 3 coming late with no results to back it up lead to his mislynch which didnt feel right but it was played poorly by us. I thought he is aizen so didnt try too hard to steer to iwan.
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    That doesn't make it better. You guys essentially claimed for no reason then. Even if Aizen didn't really do much with their controlling abilities, it just means that it happened to work out that was for this game, not that that is a good strategy goig forward.

    Ekkologix said:
    wait on the list by nitty on aizen actions. i do agree it made mafia choose better yes. but its only 2 claims/hints tiffany. only nat and kvothe. the rest never had to claim.
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    Yeah, they probably never had to claim, but I think that's kind of ignoring the team aspect of town play. You can't really say "they never had to" when it comes to decisions like this since people will do things that they never really had to all of the time. Did Flower have to fake a Naruto claim? Did you really have to fake an ability on Flower and maintain it, even after it threw town into open confusion? You guys didn't, but you did. I think ignoring how other players may react to things that don't really "need to be done" is an error in thinking because you thinking that they never had to do it doesn't stop them from thinking they need to or even simply making misplays during the confusion.

    And I think you're focusing too much the aspect of Aizen's abilities not being used to their fullest effect. It just so happened to work out that way this game, but it doesn't make it a good strategy. It's like saying that you shot yourself in the foot and everything turned out fine, so it's a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot again since nothing too bad happened the last time.

    Ekkologix said:
    its alright im a vanilla role thats useless for aizen to control. i dont have much to lose. me or oni will get killed at any point in the game so rather claim early cuz roles dont flip

    imagine we both die in a night and then mafia fake claims mason.
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    It's nice that your role is useless for Aizen, but that doesn't make your own play irrelevant. And yes, sometimes mafia will get lucky like that. It doesn't mean that it's a good idea to claim, especially when it's a claim forced by what many would say was a misplay on your part.
     
    @Tiffany the fake Naruto claim didn't hurt anyone. Ekko's and Oni's claims did hurt a lot. They were not the same thing. It's a big difference if you fake something in your own category which had exactly 0% chance of backfiring and if you claim something in a different category which had 99% chance of backfiring. Ofc Nat claimed because she thought Ekko was scum. And ofc Kvothe claimed because she wanted to confirm something. And Aizen hunting was necessary since that was the only thing standing between Town and a free claiming game which would have made the game a Town curbstomp. Our reads were even good and we found other Town quickly.

    In short, had everyone just let me done my thing, nothing of this would have happened and we would have easily won.
     
    Tiffany said:
    Congrats to @only

    I also want to congratulate @charles101 who did a good job as mafia and just lost a coin flip at the end there.
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    That's what happen when you claim Tsunade and decide to gamble.
    Ekkologix said:
    I only basically made nat claim rly. the rest kinda did on their own. i never forced lind to claim. maybe did make kvothe slight hint tho.

    eitherway those all died night 2. after that we just started yeeting scum with the hiccup of TAC
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    And Oni, this too. Tbh, not sure whether It's good town Play or nad, but i'm pretty sure it was really annoying for mafia, so I guess GG :v
    Lord Melkor said:
    Mafia should have chosen One Piece team, then Shrike would survive the Lynch.
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    We went after Naruto mostly because Tayuya has troll-ish ability. And Oro-Kabuto in one team is too good to pass
     
    Not too thrilled with how everything turned out.

    The claim fest turned the game upside-down. Sure you got me because of it but it cost town the game as well. Aizen getting everything on a plate while being totally inactive and having 0 threadplay is as meh as it gets. I had aggro on me and I was sure I could easily carry it into late game but got lynched because of the mass claim. Also picked off a lot of town roles early game when it's hard to say who's who. Charles did good.

    Thanks for the game @Shizune, it was a good setup.
     
    Flower said:
    @Tiffany the fake Naruto claim didn't hurt anyone. Ekko's and Oni's claims did hurt a lot. They were not the same thing. It's a big difference if you fake something in your own category which had exactly 0% chance of backfiring and if you claim something in a different category which had 99% chance of backfiring. Ofc Nat claimed because she thought Ekko was scum. And ofc Kvothe claimed because she wanted to confirm something. And Aizen hunting was necessary since that was the only thing standing between Town and a free claiming game which would have made the game a Town curbstomp. Our reads were even good and we found other Town quickly.

    In short, had everyone just let me done my thing, nothing of this would have happened and we would have easily won.
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    Naruto fake claim was very bad, there's no defending that.
     
    Flower said:
    @Tiffany the fake Naruto claim didn't hurt anyone. Ekko's and Oni's claims did hurt a lot. They were not the same thing. It's a big difference if you fake something in your own category which had exactly 0% chance of backfiring and if you claim something in a different category which had 99% chance of backfiring. Ofc Nat claimed because she thought Ekko was scum. And ofc Kvothe claimed because she wanted to confirm something. And Aizen hunting was necessary since that was the only thing standing between Town and a free claiming game which would have made the game a Town curbstomp. Our reads were even good and we found other Town quickly.
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    I think it was a bad play. There are other ways to fish for Aizen without faking a claim. Players were against you claiming on D1, and you not expecting bad reactions from some players on D2 is kind of weird. In real time, even I figured it was a fake claim; I don't doubt that Aizen probably could've figured that out too. And yeah, I hope you guys found some town quickly with all the claims that were flying out of there.

    In short, had everyone just let me done my thing, nothing of this would have happened and we would have easily won.
    Click to expand...
    That's an optimistic take. Yeah, if everything conveniently worked like you thought it would in your head then sure maybe.
     
    Shrike said:
    Not too thrilled with how everything turned out.

    The claim fest turned the game upside-down. Sure you got me because of it but it cost town the game as well. Aizen getting everything on a plate while being totally inactive and having 0 threadplay is as meh as it gets. I had aggro on me and I was sure I could easily carry it into late game but got lynched because of the mass claim. Also picked off a lot of town roles early game when it's hard to say who's who. Charles did good.

    Thanks for the game @Shizune, it was a good setup.
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    You massively overextended Day 1. You were lynched because your play was scummy. It happens.
     
    Ratchet said:
    @Flower is correct by the way, in this setup being a protagonist role means a fake claim there is actually an obvious play to make. The only reason people combated it was because they hadn't read that there can only be one protagonist.
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    we didnt know the dead roles, a protag could be one of u or tiffany and flower fake claims it
    her claim came so suddenly it looked fake
     
    Ratchet said:
    @Flower is correct by the way, in this setup being a protagonist role means a fake claim there is actually an obvious play to make. The only reason people combated it was because they hadn't read that there can only be one protagonist.
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    I agree with Ekkologix.

    Ratchet said:
    That's a huge assumption to make, though. There is more into analysing a claim than when it is made, especially from a player known for wanting to get a claim out there!
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    I mean, any particular role would have a low chance of getting hit N1'd, but roles are hit, so it's not really a huge assumption.
     
    Ratchet said:
    @Flower is correct by the way, in this setup being a protagonist role means a fake claim there is actually an obvious play to make. The only reason people combated it was because they hadn't read that there can only be one protagonist.
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    That and they didn't quite read the Aizen role either. Unique roles are the best way to figure out the Aizen role since you can just fake it without any drawbacks.
     
    I didn't read the entire thread so I can't be certain about what exactly happened, but generally speaking, town primarily lost because of over-claiming and now it looks like everyone involved is trying to distance themselves and shirk blame onto someone else. :mlpshrug This is the problem with relying on claims: townies simply don't have enough information to differentiate between the real and fake claims, and once things devolve into chaos, it's very difficult for the town to recover. Regardless of what "should" or "should not" have happened, I think everyone who helped create the snowball effect of role claims should admit to their part in it.
     
    Ratchet said:
    @Flower is correct by the way, in this setup being a protagonist role means a fake claim there is actually an obvious play to make. The only reason people combated it was because they hadn't read that there can only be one protagonist.
    Click to expand...

    The protagonist's entire ability depends on them reaching endgame. If the protagonist reveals themselves too early, they're effectively throwing away their ability for a gambit, and gambits by definition are unlikely to work.
     
    Ratchet said:
    But it is, because you're assuming out of all the possible roles that could have been killed, only a specific one was hit. As opposed to any role being killed, which has a probability of 1.
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    One specific role was hit though. An 7ish% chance isn't that low to dismiss the possibility, especially when they're being scumread.

    Furthermore, fake claiming a protagonist role isn't the best play for reasons that I've already outlined. You're relying on Aizen misreading roles and game set up. Does Aizen really take the bait for what is effectively a 1/3 chance? Does he even believe it? He can just not believe the specific role claim and look elsewhere.

    You effectively are a tree stump that can be killed at mafia's desire before it reaches MyLo or LyLo.
     
    Shrike said:
    Not too thrilled with how everything turned out.

    The claim fest turned the game upside-down. Sure you got me because of it but it cost town the game as well. Aizen getting everything on a plate while being totally inactive and having 0 threadplay is as meh as it gets. I had aggro on me and I was sure I could easily carry it into late game but got lynched because of the mass claim. Also picked off a lot of town roles early game when it's hard to say who's who. Charles did good.

    Thanks for the game @Shizune, it was a good setup.
    Click to expand...
    Honestly yes. This is my second 3p game where i had to guess to win. the first game was really hard because no one was claiming, neither their roles nor their actions properly. I had bad guesses but fixed it by being superactive and getting town read and managing to stay alive till Day 7. but i didn't wanna do that here because i didn't know half the player's list and couldn't predict if mafia would kill me or not. I had a bpv but superkill could kill me, so i planned to lay low and balance between scum and town, so that i don't get lynched or killed, if any of those happened for once i was bound to be 100% outed as 3p.
     
    only said:
    Honestly yes. This is my second 3p game where i had to guess to win. the first game was really hard because no one was claiming, neither their roles nor their actions properly. I had bad guesses but fixed it by being superactive and getting town read and managing to stay alive till Day 7. but i didn't wanna do that here because i didn't know half the player's list and couldn't predict if mafia would kill me or not. I had a bpv but superkill could kill me, so i planned to lay low and balance between scum and town, so that i don't get lynched or killed, if any of those happened for once i was bound to be 100% outed as 3p.
    Click to expand...
    Please don't take that as a jab at you since it isn't a jab at anyone. You did what you could with what was given to you and you did well :heart
     
    Shizune said:
    I didn't read the entire thread so I can't be certain about what exactly happened, but generally speaking, town primarily lost because of over-claiming and now it looks like everyone involved is trying to distance themselves and shirk blame onto someone else. :mlpshrug This is the problem with relying on claims: townies simply don't have enough information to differentiate between the real and fake claims, and once things devolve into chaos, it's very difficult for the town to recover. Regardless of what "should" or "should not" have happened, I think everyone who helped create the snowball effect of role claims should admit to their part in it.
    Click to expand...
    i still stand by claiming early this game is sooo much better than claiming later

    because if we dont claim we will still die and now mafia can just fake claim our roles for free since they know the roles of those who they kill

    its how the game was designed to be. if roles did flip then claiming is bad i agree. but otherwise we wud have to rely on hiruzen/coroner who we had no idea if they were dead or alive, and hiruzen is just a 1 shot.
     
    1. No i didnt need to claim or hint, it was a mistake

    2. My claim was purely emotional because Usopp was being dense and not getting it why I think Flower is NOT scum because I knew what was Ratchets role and Tiffany was going to be scanned. Flower out right claimed with coroner still in play. Oni as his partner certaintly didn't get it either. Usopp himself said he will ALWAYS tinfoil me and Flower.

    The fact that even AFTER I FLIP TOWN, he was hell bent in tunneling Flower as scum was just quite ... wow. No words tbh.

    But anyways, it caused a lot of ordeal. Usopp fake claiming as a cop which caused Nat to out herself which then outed his mason partner and Lind was on the hot plate so he essentially claimed to get out of a lynch. I dont even know why Hayumi claimed because I only sussed him a little and he immediately hinted Brook. And even though it did, Mafia had a huge lead and threw it.

    Congrats to @only

    I was posting in my role pm who I thought was scum after I died (Got charles, said Aizens defense is god awful, didnt really look at Only but me and Lind thought Cooler was lowkey scum). I was right about my reads day 1 but people called me weird or aggro. Usopp said I refused reads which was flatout wrong.

    I believed in Flower and that got me sussed too. Eh.
     
    Ekkologix said:
    i still stand by claiming early this game is sooo much better than claiming later

    because if we dont claim we will still die and now mafia can just fake claim our roles for free since they know the roles of those who they kill

    its how the game was designed to be. if roles did flip then claiming is bad i agree. but otherwise we wud have to rely on hiruzen/coroner who we had no idea if they were dead or alive, and hiruzen is just a 1 shot.
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    Well, if EVERYONE would be forced to claim immediately as D2 starts, yeah, it would make town get in a good position and they can pick off most of their targets in any order they like. But tossing out fake claims is not a good play, Aizen or no Aizen.
     
    Shrike said:
    Well, if EVERYONE would be forced to claim immediately as D2 starts, yeah, it would make town get in a good position and they can pick off most of their targets in any order they like. But tossing out fake claims is not a good play, Aizen or no Aizen.
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    a fake claim was only half of day2, it was corrected later. it was intended to be corrected and im glad we forced some players to claim

    imagine a world where we dont claim and we end up losing coroner/hiruzen

    we literally auto lose now cuz we will have no idea who is dead and mafia does as they please
     
    Kvothe Kingkiller said:
    1. No i didnt need to claim or hint, it was a mistake

    2. My claim was purely emotional because Usopp was being dense and not getting it why I think Flower is NOT scum because I knew what was Ratchets role and Tiffany was going to be scanned. Flower out right claimed with coroner still in play. Oni as his partner certaintly didn't get it either. Usopp himself said he will ALWAYS tinfoil me and Flower.

    The fact that even AFTER I FLIP TOWN, he was hell bent in tunneling Flower as scum was just quite ... wow. No words tbh.

    But anyways, it caused a lot of ordeal. Usopp fake claiming as a cop which caused Nat to out herself which then outed his mason partner and Lind was on the hot plate so he essentially claimed to get out of a lynch. I dont even know why Hayumi claimed because I only sussed him a little and he immediately hinted Brook. And even though it did, Mafia had a huge lead and threw it.

    Congrats to @only

    I was posting in my role pm who I thought was scum after I died (Got charles, said Aizens defense is god awful, didnt really look at Only but me and Lind thought Cooler was lowkey scum). I was right about my reads day 1 but people called me weird or aggro. Usopp said I refused reads which was flatout wrong.

    I believed in Flower and that got me sussed too. Eh.
    Click to expand...
    idk about the claims part but for sure my biggest mistake is the scum read of flower, i still have no idea how she is town lol

    she defended every single scum player and randomly claimed naruto

    her play ddint align with normal town solving play which i found very odd

    but then turns out she is faking the claim as well so it probably makes sense
     
    Ekkologix said:
    fwiw we only have 2 mislynches so we played very well
    day 1 mislynch is common, day 3 mislynch was bad

    but losing after 2 mislynches is kinda yikes when we had to get 5 mislynches in the last nitty game to win
    Click to expand...
    the deaths in night 2 was brutal. One was a misfire from the vig and idk if vivo / nat visited lind. but if they did then that was probably the biggest blunder in this game

    I was dead from mafia

    Ekkologix said:
    idk about the claims part but for sure my biggest mistake is the scum read of flower, i still have no idea how she is town lol

    she defended every single scum player and randomly claimed naruto

    her play ddint align with normal town solving play which i found very odd

    but then turns out she is faking the claim as well so it probably makes sense
    Click to expand...
    sometimes its hard to scum hunt when youre defending yourself 90% in the thread by a tunneler :doggokek
     
    Shizune

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