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Day six lynch Edit

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John Wayne said:
[Vote Lynch Natalija]
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Yeah, this ISO doesn't look good at all and filled mainly with fluff and a defense of LM, which Shrike doesn't call out as defending LM like I did with Ratchet apparently. Which is very weird.

Also, says that players calling her town might have TMI on her, but she basically calls LM town with no substantiation either. Not liking the contradiction or shade there.

Yeah. I'm down for a Nat lynch now too.

[Vote Lynch Natalija]

@Ekkologix @A I Z E N @OniKaido @Flower @Tiffany @Hayumi Let's go Nat.
 
Lind said:
So you know that gut reads are used by scum? So what exactly was suspicious in my posts that you said Nat gut read as scummy?


What is this? You're not lynching to verify a link? Then what were these posts before:



Then the second part of your sentence tells me again that I was soft defending Ratchet, which aligns with your two posts I quoted above, but you say that you're not lynching to verify a link?

That's not possible here, Shrike. You are lynching to verify a link, but you're lynching the wrong guy and it feels like weak backtracking here.
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What's a weak backtracking? I said you're fake and sus. I also said you soft defended a person I found very sus. Therefore, I am voting you. What kind of logic are you trying to wiggle out here? Just digging yourself in more.
 
Shrike said:
What's a weak backtracking? I said you're fake and sus. I also said you soft defended a person I found very sus. Therefore, I am voting you. What kind of logic are you trying to wiggle out here? Just digging yourself in more.
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Nope! You back tracked. You were clearly pushing the angle of Ratchet and me being scum buddies and now you're saying I'm fake and sus is the main reason for a lynch over Ratchet, but still point out that I soft defended a player you scum read.

And from JW's Iso, I also read Nat defending LM, whom you scum read too (LM). So what's your read of Nat then? Should be scum by the same logic you outlined here.

"digging myself deeper"? No Shrike, it's you. Using negative adjectives to try and add more weight to your accusations doesn't work. Sorry.
 
Lind said:
Nope! You back tracked. You were clearly pushing the angle of Ratchet and me being scum buddies and now you're saying I'm fake and sus is the main reason for a lynch over Ratchet, but still point out that I soft defended a player you scum read.

And from JW's Iso, I also read Nat defending LM, whom you scum read too (LM). So what's your read of Nat then? Should be scum by the same logic you outlined here.

"digging myself deeper"? No Shrike, it's you. Using negative adjectives to try and add more weight to your accusations doesn't work. Sorry.
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Man I don't want to repeat myself all the time, anyone isoing my posts can see that I called your post fake 15 hours ago or whatever. I did not backtrack off of anything. I am convinced you're scum more with every post you make.
 
Shrike said:
Man I don't want to repeat myself all the time, anyone isoing my posts can see that I called your post fake 15 hours ago or whatever. I did not backtrack off of anything. I am convinced you're scum more with every post you make.
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You clearly back tracked since you were pushing the angle of Ratchet and me being scum and then said you were lynching to not verify a link.

Plus, thanks for ignoring my question of your read on Nat.

They can ISO me too and see if I was soft defending ratchet and "being fake" which, again, is a subjective opinion. Not evidence.
 
Lind said:
You clearly back tracked since you were pushing the angle of Ratchet and me being scum and then said you were lynching to not verify a link.

Plus, thanks for ignoring my question of your read on Nat.

They can ISO me too and see if I was soft defending ratchet and "being fake" which, again, is a subjective opinion. Not evidence.
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Why are you pretending like basing a vote or sus on subjective opinion isn’t how this game is played?
 
Natalija said:
Why are you pretending like basing a vote or sus on subjective opinion isn’t how this game is played?
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It's a weak push is what I'm basing my argument on. What didn't you understand about subjective opinions? Haven't you written an analytical paper or anything?

Subjective opinions are only called out after they have been proven wrong. The only way to prove a subjective opinion wrong in mafia is via flips in regards to suspicions on players because subjective opinions, at their core, aren't based on evidence that is justifiable.
 
Lind said:
It's a weak push is what I'm basing my argument on. What didn't you understand about subjective opinions? Haven't you written an analytical paper or anything?

Subjective opinions are only called out after they have been proven wrong. The only way to prove a subjective opinion wrong in mafia is via flips in regards to suspicions on players because subjective opinions, at their core, aren't based on evidence that is justifiable.
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LOL yes, you know I am preparing a doctorate!

However, all pushes are weak today. Your push on a weak push is weak too. Precisely because they’re all weak pushes on subjectivity.

Well you said it, we need your flip and then we’ll be proven right :catblush
 
Flower said:
I don't see it. And tf should I vote you if you're Town. Are you scum?
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I am town! Then what's your opinion on Shrike then?

Natalija said:
LOL yes, you know I am preparing a doctorate!

However, all pushes are weak today. Your push on a weak push is weak too. Precisely because they’re all weak pushes on subjectivity.

Well you said it, we need your flip and then we’ll be proven right :catblush
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Good luck on the doctorate!

My flip will be town.
 
Lind said:
You clearly back tracked since you were pushing the angle of Ratchet and me being scum and then said you were lynching to not verify a link.

Plus, thanks for ignoring my question of your read on Nat.

They can ISO me too and see if I was soft defending ratchet and "being fake" which, again, is a subjective opinion. Not evidence.
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I am not ignoring your question about Nat since our discussion is right there. We went back and forth about LM, and I wondered if I am on the right track by voting him since everyone was too calm. Seems like I was right to move my vote as I rattled a nest, you started dropping omgsuses everywhere.
 
Shrike said:
I am not ignoring your question about Nat since our discussion is right there. We went back and forth about LM, and I wondered if I am on the right track by voting him since everyone was too calm. Seems like I was right to move my vote as I rattled a nest, you started dropping omgsuses everywhere.
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It wasn't an omgus at all.

1) The very definition of omgus is using one's vote as a defense rather than defending first. Which is clearly the opposite of our interaction.
2) Omgus day 1 isn't usually scum indicative much.
3) I know that I'm town, and if I see an interaction going in a direction that I don't like against me, I'm more likely to scum read my accusers because scum are least flexible in their reads and strive for a mislynch.

So, no. It wasn't omgus at all, bro.
 
Lind said:
It wasn't an omgus at all.

1) The very definition of omgus is using one's vote as a defense rather than defending first. Which is clearly the opposite of our interaction.
2) Omgus day 1 isn't usually scum indicative much.
3) I know that I'm town, and if I see an interaction going in a direction that I don't like against me, I'm more likely to scum read my accusers because scum are least flexible in their reads and strive for a mislynch.

So, no. It wasn't omgus at all, bro.
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Okay, let's drop the technicalities then - you are defensive in all the wrong ways. Why would I remove my vote from LM and create a ruckus if I am scum? Scum was obviously perfectly content with how the dp was going, 4 hours before EOS everyone is silent and nobody is counterpushing anything. Kinda sus, you'll agree.

Flower said:
@Natalija who do you scum read rn? Same question @Shrike .
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You. Read the goddam thread.
 
Shrike said:
Okay, let's drop the technicalities then - you are defensive in all the wrong ways. Why would I remove my vote from LM and create a ruckus if I am scum? Scum was obviously perfectly content with how the dp was going, 4 hours before EOS everyone is silent and nobody is counterpushing anything. Kinda sus, you'll agree.
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No, this I agree on. That's why I refrained from commenting on that part of your post. I went and ISO'd, and you were actually flexible on your LM read.

I was making a note of that in my PM, as you know very well from your game haha. I'm rereading the thread. Gimme a minute.

What's your read of Oni and Kvothe?
 
Lind said:
It doesn't actually show that I'm scummy, though. Like I said, gut reads stem from something.

1) Tone, gut, instinct.. whatever you call it. They don't come out of thin air. Reads without substantiation is what scum use to push cases and lynches on players.

2) Not to mention, the case of Ratchet and me being buddies can only be the case when I oppose his wagon, or hard defend him against any accusation. So far, though, I have only defended my own point of why I thought his aggressiveness was him trying to push the day phase.

3) Gut reads is a poor read to push on. Why? Because it's based on subjectivity. Subjective reads can only be called out after they have been proven wrong.

From the above three points, clearly, the only push on me based on gut and scum buddy with ratchet can be a scum motivated push.
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Do you think Shrike would commit as early as hard as scum? Seems a bit risky play from him.
 
Lind said:
No, this I agree on. That's why I refrained from commenting on that part of your post. I went and ISO'd, and you were actually flexible on your LM read.

I was making a note of that in my PM, as you know very well from your game haha. I'm rereading the thread. Gimme a minute.

What's your read of Oni and Kvothe?
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Don't like either of them. Kvothe was unusually aggressive, and then decided to fluff, pretty uncharacteristic.

Oni seemed neutral to me until his weird "I am Aizen!" claim which was not good at all and seemed like scum trying to clear himself of being an indie by claiming something he is not.

Why are you asking about those two?
 
Lord Melkor said:
Do you think Shrike would commit as early as hard as scum? Seems a bit risky play from him.
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I've seen scum Shrike in FMA and DBZ. There I recall he was committed to a mango push in FMA. So it's not commitment that's the problem here. What caught my eye was him calling Ratchet and me buddies, but not lynching verify a link. He said that he also read me as fake.

What's your opinion of that?
 
Lind said:
I'm not liking my interaction with Shrike here. He could be scum tbh. Not sure how I feel about Nat just following him.
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I think Shrike is more likely to scum than Nat here as i know he can do powerfwolfing. But Ratchet could be as well. Not sure if Shrike would be that agressive so early as scum.

Unfortunately I do not have strong scum reads on anyone yet. My vote is currntly on Ratchet but not sure about it.
 
Shrike said:
How can I be sure? What's with you people and asking if I have some kind of irrefutable prood today. Blame me if Lind/Rathet aren't scum, that's fine. Just carry your own weight vote-wise.
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I interpreted your posts as saying you think both Ratchet and Lind are scum based on their soft defence of each other, which I find bold move for day one.

But yes, I am currently following with Ratchet vote.
 
Shrike said:
Don't like either of them. Kvothe was unusually aggressive, and then decided to fluff, pretty uncharacteristic.

Oni seemed neutral to me until his weird "I am Aizen!" claim which was not good at all and seemed like scum trying to clear himself of being an indie by claiming something he is not.

Why are you asking about those two?
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I mentioned that Kvothe wasn't easy for me to read as town earlier. I too feel like she may be scum here, not sure. I wanted your opinion on her.

Oni felt a bit laid back compared to his town self. He's on vacation now, though. So I'm keeping that in mind while forming a read on him.

I wanted your opinions cause I wanted to see if our reads aligned. It does on Kvothe.
 
Lind said:
It's a weak push is what I'm basing my argument on. What didn't you understand about subjective opinions? Haven't you written an analytical paper or anything?

Subjective opinions are only called out after they have been proven wrong. The only way to prove a subjective opinion wrong in mafia is via flips in regards to suspicions on players because subjective opinions, at their core, aren't based on evidence that is justifiable.
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This is forum game when we do not see each other faces or hear voices which would make it easier to catch scum. With experienced players it is not easy to catch obvious scum on day one, so of course there is place for subjective opinions.
 
Lind said:
I've seen scum Shrike in FMA and DBZ. There I recall he was committed to a mango push in FMA. So it's not commitment that's the problem here. What caught my eye was him calling Ratchet and me buddies, but not lynching verify a link. He said that he also read me as fake.

What's your opinion of that?
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Slightly leaning town on him because he how hard how commits against more than one person day one, but not entirely sure I remember that Shrike is capable of fooling me.
 
Shizune

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