Game World of Warcraft: The Darkness Over Duskwood (town wins!)

[Natalija]

Why did you not take action Night 1?

I didn't trust anyone as town yet, so I didn't want to potentially protect mafia, or stop a vig kill. But then later I was convinced Laix was town.

Cooo! ("He did the redirects" What do you mean here? That sentence makes it sound like you knew about redirects)

He's the one with the ability to redirect. Because then protecting him was kinda pointless.

 

[John Wayne]

I didn't trust anyone as town yet, so I didn't want to potentially protect mafia, or stop a vig kill. But then later I was convinced Laix was town.

But there was a confirmed town role.

 

[Natalija]

To think I defended you

This was a clear hint no sure y'all picked up.

 

[Laix]

So, firstly I'd like to bring this post back to your attention. Some of you may have assumed i was referring to Hayumi flipping town, and perhaps overreacting. I was not.

You see, I am a Watcher. Night Phase 1, I targeted Juan, and received [No results]. Night Phase 2 I targeted Lord Melkor, and received [No results]. It's probably obvious at this stage why I was so frustrated at my play. I should have, by all rights, been watching the Innocent Child. I got away with it Night 1, but that was just a bonus. When WPK subbed in and improved the slot, I really ought to have played it simple, and watched him. But I got in my own head, and convinced myself I could get away with it again. Lo and behold, WPK died, and I was left with nothing to show for 2 nights of investigations.

So Night 3, I decided to play it a bit more seriously. With how heavily Laix had pushed Cooler, I felt it was probably in scum's interest to target Laix. If nothing else, it felt like the kind of investigation I should do, rather than trying to play it "cleverly", which had to date clearly not worked very well.

My results last Night Phase said @Natalija targeted Laix. If Laix indeed busdrove himself with Tiger, then I would have actually been Watching Tiger, and thus, I should have received Kira in my results. I also feel like I probably should have received Laix as well. But I don't know how it is done here - some sites do not show the busdriver, when self-targeting, to appear to target themselves. Someone else would have to advise on that.

So from here, we have three possibilities, as best I can tell:

1 - Kira is scum, and caught fake claiming a role block.
2 - Laix is scum, and lied about busdriving himself and Tiger.
3 - Natalija is scum, and blocked Laix from busdriving himself*

*In this event, Natalija is probably scum with Kira, due to the lack of counter claim from Natalija when Kira claimed blocker.

I'm not sure which of the options I prefer exactly, but it seems pretty clear to me that Tiger should probably not be the lynch today. I would probably pick Kira myself, and if he flips town, lynch Laix the following Day Phase, and then end the game by lynching Tiger.

Anyone have any questions?

oh my god

 

[Ratchet]

I didn't trust anyone as town yet, so I didn't want to potentially protect mafia, or stop a vig kill. But then later I was convinced Laix was town.

If you really are doctor, this is poor play. There is no reason to ever not use your protect, because if you happen to stop a kill, which it may not confirm your target is town, further down the line it is a huge source of information, and may very well confirm your target is town. Plus, just the chance of stopping the scum kill is enough of a boon, no?

 

[Hidden]

I didn't trust anyone as town yet, so I didn't want to potentially protect mafia, or stop a vig kill. But then later I was convinced Laix was town.

He's the one with the ability to redirect. Because then protecting him was kinda pointless.

Coo ("The redirects" is a very weird way to word that if you don't know about redirects happening ioo. Maybe Okosan is reading too much into that (others can tell him if he is) but it would make sense if you tried to kill Laix twice and got redirected twice)

 

[Natalija]

But there was a confirmed town role.

My bad, didn't think of that night 1

 

[Hidden]

Coo! (Okosan is pretty sure Natalija is just scum lmao, but we should lynch one of Tiger/Kira first. Because there's guaranteed a scum between those two)

 

[Kira Yagami]

This is so messy
All i know is I roleblocked Tiger, coincidentally theres been no kill and he conveniently backtracked on his last claim to claim BP and that he tanked the kill

Also roleblocks are processed before any of those other actions so hes still lying

 

[Hidden]

Coooo! (Okosan will be honest he's starting to turn to lynching Kira first though)

 

[Laix]

so kira, tiger and natalija

tiger is probably the best player of the three here, so he is VERY capable of bullshitting his way out of this

however i've had a town read on ratchet since day 1 so im inclined to believe him here

kira however is VERY confident with his push on tiger. and since we know there is three scum left, one of which just got lynched, if kira and tiger was on the same team, why would kira throw tiger under the bus so quick?

so we can 100% say that Kira and Tiger are NOT on the same team. however one of them is scum.

natalija dropped a hint about being a doctor before ratchet's post so i'm inclined to believe she's town

so that leaves @Kira Yagami ?

i want to hear what you have to say first though

 

[Ratchet]

Well in either case, if Kira is lynched and flips Town, we know for sure Tiger is scum, due to the block having been legitimate and Tiger claiming to have had his shot consumed, and alongside this we know Laix is scum, because my results cannot be explained otherwise. Conversely, if Kira flips scum, then surely Natalija must also be scum, because Natalija would have been protecting Tiger, and yet Tiger would have lost his bulletproof. Am I missing something here, or do we not have scum confirmed to be either Tiger/Laix or Kira/Natalija? That feels too easy?

 

[Laix]

This is so messy
All i know is I roleblocked Tiger, coincidentally theres been no kill and he conveniently backtracked on his last claim to claim BP and that he tanked the kill

Also roleblocks are processed before any of those other actions so hes still lying

this is also true

kira roleblocking tiger matches up with my story

so is natalija lying?

 

[Hidden]

Cooo! (Lmao you know what barring some scum not being picked up by cops or something off the wall like that, the game is solved from Tiger's Pov)

 

[Natalija]

Looool I'm town, you're all just blind.

@Ratchet I'm not called the doctor, but alas that was the decision I made. And there were no kills n1 anyway, so it's not a waste. Also, I'm not sure how I would "get information", it's not like I get informed if someone attacks my protected player.

 

[Laix]

Looool I'm town, you're all just blind.

@Ratchet I'm not called the doctor, but alas that was the decision I made. And there were no kills n1 anyway, so it's not a waste. Also, I'm not sure how I would "get information", it's not like I get informed if someone attacks my protected player.

no but if you 'protect' someone and they don't die, then you can assume they were town? because scum wouldn't kill eachother would they?

 

[Kira Yagami]

Well in either case, if Kira is lynched and flips Town, we know for sure Tiger is scum, due to the block having been legitimate and Tiger claiming to have had his shot consumed, and alongside this we know Laix is scum, because my results cannot be explained otherwise. Conversely, if Kira flips scum, then surely Natalija must also be scum, because Natalija would have been protecting Tiger, and yet Tiger would have lost his bulletproof. Am I missing something here, or do we not have scum confirmed to be either Tiger/Laix or Kira/Natalija? That feels too easy?

Thats cute and all but its tiger we're lynching

 

[Natalija]

no but if you 'protect' someone and they don't die, then you can assume they were town? because scum wouldn't kill eachother would they?

What? Who's to guarantee someone attacks my player of choice?

 

[Laix]

What? Who's to guarantee someone attacks my player of choice?

of course it can't be guaranteed but if you had to guarantee everything before making a decision in mafia, we'd lose

 

[John Wayne]

What? Who's to guarantee someone attacks my player of choice?

Nothing, but that's were your own deduction of who might be a likely target comes in. Either way it's better to do something than to do nothing. Protecting someone has the potential to both save Town and get info. Doing nothing has no potential.

 

[Ratchet]

Looool I'm town, you're all just blind.

@Ratchet I'm not called the doctor, but alas that was the decision I made. And there were no kills n1 anyway, so it's not a waste. Also, I'm not sure how I would "get information", it's not like I get informed if someone attacks my protected player.

What are you called then?

There could have been a number of reasons from your perspective why no kill would occur Night 1. You would get information, because if it later turns out that the roleblocker did not block scum, then the next most likely scenario would be you having protected the Mafia kill. Sure, there could be some 5D gambit from the Mafia shooting themselves, but without some form of protection that would be asinine. And they clearly could not count on yours, for obvious reasons.

 

[Hidden]

Coo! COO! (Actaully you know what pretty sure it actually doesn't matter who we lynch first

Outcomes:

Lynch Tiger (Town): We have the exact scum team as Natalija/Kira. Game is solved

Lynch Tiger (Scum): We get some confirmed town basically. Laix is confirmed, Natalija is mostly confirmed, Kira is confirmed. Still have to scum hunt, but the game is easier

Lynch Kira (Town): We know that Tiger is scum, same situation as above scenario but with losing Kira

Lynch Kira (Scum): We know Natalija is scum and the game ends a little earlier)

Coooo! (The only difference between the two is Tiger is hedging a little bit in that you either get a bunch of town mafia has to chunk through or you get two scum that we have to deal with over the next few days. Lynching Kira is more all in as him flipping town is a bit worse, but him flipping scum is better)

 

[Natalija]

of course it can't be guaranteed but if you had to guarantee everything before making a decision in mafia, we'd lose

Yes, so it doesn't town clear anyone either. I did you because I was sure you were town and annoying the shit out of the scum

 

[Laix]

for what it's worth i still believe mafia tried to off LG night 1 (who did have a 1 shot BP)

and thats why they pushed him so hard day 2

especially cooler who "just had a hunch" and then ended up flipping scum

tiger was also on that wagon so it would help prove my theory

 

[Ratchet]

Lynch Tiger (Scum): We get some confirmed town basically. Laix is confirmed, Natalija is mostly confirmed, Kira is confirmed. Still have to scum hunt, but the game is easier

How is Laix confirmed Town if we lynch Tiger and he flips scum? If that were the case, how would my results make any sense at all? I would have not received Kira, indicating that Laix was not busdriven at all. If anything, is Laix not confirmed scum if Tiger flips scum, given my results?

 

[Hidden]

Coo! (Pretty sure it's technically more correct to lynch Tiger first, but it actually doesn't matter all too much)

 

[Laix]

How is Laix confirmed Town if we lynch Tiger and he flips scum? If that were the case, how would my results make any sense at all? I would have not received Kira, indicating that Laix was not busdriven at all. If anything, is Laix not confirmed scum if Tiger flips scum, given my results?

I don't see how I get autoconfirmed town by Tiger flipping, but I also don't completely understand your train of thought? doesn't it rely purely on how Elistren processes the interactions of busdrives and tracking?

 

[Natalija]

This makes no sense. If I protected WPK, how did he die.

 

[Natalija]

Coo! COO! (Actaully you know what pretty sure it actually doesn't matter who we lynch first

Outcomes:

Lynch Tiger (Town): We have the exact scum team as Natalija/Kira. Game is solved

Lynch Tiger (Scum): We get some confirmed town basically. Laix is confirmed, Natalija is mostly confirmed, Kira is confirmed. Still have to scum hunt, but the game is easier

Lynch Kira (Town): We know that Tiger is scum, same situation as above scenario but with losing Kira

Lynch Kira (Scum): We know Natalija is scum and the game ends a little earlier)

Coooo! (The only difference between the two is Tiger is hedging a little bit in that you either get a bunch of town mafia has to chunk through or you get two scum that we have to deal with over the next few days. Lynching Kira is more all in as him flipping town is a bit worse, but him flipping scum is better)

This is so so bad, because I have literally nothing to do with them.

And I don't like your controlling presence either, bird. Don't think you are forgotten either.

 

[Ratchet]

I don't see how I get autoconfirmed town by Tiger flipping, but I also don't completely understand your train of thought? doesn't it rely purely on how Elistren processes the interactions of busdrives and tracking?

Not really? If you busdrove yourself with Tiger, and roleblocks are supposed to occur before such actions, then it stands to reason I would, by watching you, have received Kira in my results. If Tiger flips scum, we can probably assume that Kira is town, at least for the time being. Thus, he would have absolutely blocked Tiger. That means that you must not have been busdriven, given I only received Natalija in my results. That then means you must be lying about busdriving yourself, hence scum.

On the other hand, if Kira flips scum, then we can probably assume Tiger is town. Given that Tiger claims to have lost his one-shot, then a kill must have failed on him. However, with Natalija supposedly busdriven from you to Tiger, which would explain my results, Tiger could not have lost his one-shot. And that means my results must contain a killer, due to your busdriving. Hence, Natalija must also be scum.

 

[Kira Yagami]

This makes no sense. If I protected WPK, how did he die.

cause you're lying

 

[Hidden]

How is Laix confirmed Town if we lynch Tiger and he flips scum? If that were the case, how would my results make any sense at all? I would have not received Kira, indicating that Laix was not busdriven at all. If anything, is Laix not confirmed scum if Tiger flips scum, given my results?

Coooo! (Oh wait yeah Okosan didn't fully think through everything that's his bad again. Actually yeah isn't this game just pretty solved? One of Tiger and Kira HAS to be scum.

If it's Tiger it has to be Laix or Kira paired with him. Laix could be lying and thus you actually targeted them and only saw natalija. It could also be the crazy world where Kira was lying to get town cred for a while technically.

If it's Kira then it's confirmed to be either Natalija or Tiger)

Coo?? (Is there any world Okosan is missing? Again barring some scum being immune to being spotted pretty sure those are the worlds)

 

[Natalija]

What are you called then?

There could have been a number of reasons from your perspective why no kill would occur Night 1. You would get information, because if it later turns out that the roleblocker did not block scum, then the next most likely scenario would be you having protected the Mafia kill. Sure, there could be some 5D gambit from the Mafia shooting themselves, but without some form of protection that would be asinine. And they clearly could not count on yours, for obvious reasons.

Night Watch, some random name.

 

[Ratchet]

Like, the only way Laix isn't confirmed scum if Tiger is scum, at least from what I can tell, is if roleblocks don't know up on Watcher investigations. That... doesn't really make any sense to me.

 

[Hidden]

Coo! (Is there a world where Ratchet is lying? Probably not right?)

 

[John Wayne]

Laix and Tiger as scummates

Wouldn't that be fun.

two rivals bound together as teammates

i love this story

does it end in me getting punished?

Town:

You, Ratchet and Plat.

For you it's a meta read, you're giving your reads freely and you seem pretty care free.

Ratchet and Plat because the way they pushed those lynches felt genuine, feel like it's brave for scum to go balls deep like that.

Scum:

Tiger - explained why

Laix - kinda just feels like he's shit stirring and not trying to game solve. Aggro'ing me without voting as well feels off.

John Wayne - coasting and I'm tinfoiling here but the way he called my other two scum reads as buddies D1 is ringing in my ears lol. Like was it a cheeky bluff? TMI? Feel like he pulled it out of thin air.

Lol these posts

 

[Hidden]

This is so so bad, because I have literally nothing to do with them.

And I don't like your controlling presence either, bird. Don't think you are forgotten either.

Coooo! (If Kira is scum you are also very likely scum then Natalija. That means that Kira is lying about roleblocking tiger, which in turn means that Tiger was attacked. Since you were the only only seen targeting Tiger, that only leaves a few people as suspects. One is Kira lying with them both being scum. Another is you trying to kill Tiger last night. The third is maybe there's a world with Ratchet lying? Okosan hasn't thought through that yet. The last is that scum the scum carrying the kill is immune to investigations)

 

[Ratchet]

Coooo! (Oh wait yeah Okosan didn't fully think through everything that's his bad again. Actually yeah isn't this game just pretty solved? One of Tiger and Kira HAS to be scum.

If it's Tiger it has to be Laix or Kira paired with him. Laix could be lying and thus you actually targeted them and only saw natalija. It could also be the crazy world where Kira was lying to get town cred for a while technically.

If it's Kira then it's confirmed to be either Natalija or Tiger)

Coo?? (Is there any world Okosan is missing? Again barring some scum being immune to being spotted pretty sure those are the worlds)

I think that's pretty much it. At least, it is from my perspective. The bolded is also possible, but that doesn't really factor in here, as the issue is who is not in my results, not who is in them.

 

[Laix]

Coo! (Is there a world where Ratchet is lying? Probably not right?)

ratchet is definitely telling the truth as his line of events matches up with mine

however I don’t think Kira would flush tiger down the drain after losing cooler, so it’s either Natalia or someone whose been really quiet this phase (Juan)

 

[Natalija]

Coooo! (If Kira is scum you are also very likely scum then Natalija. That means that Kira is lying about roleblocking tiger, which in turn means that Tiger was attacked. Since you were the only only seen targeting Tiger, that only leaves a few people as suspects. One is Kira lying with them both being scum. Another is you trying to kill Tiger last night. The third is maybe there's a world with Ratchet lying? Okosan hasn't thought through that yet. The last is that scum the scum carrying the kill is immune to investigations)

And what with the fact that I am town? I don't see how Kira is connected to me at all. I was seen visiting Laix, which I did. How the Tiger thing happened, I'm clueless about. He was first roleblocked, then redirected, then protected by me? Crazytown.

 

[Hidden]

I think that's pretty much it. At least, it is from my perspective. The bolded is also possible, but that doesn't really factor in here, as the issue is who is not in my results, not who is in them.

Cooo! (Hmm does a protect only save from one kill or just any kills against them?)

COOOO! (If it only protects from one kill then the only way both you and Natalija can be telling the truth is if one scum carried two kills. If it protects from all basic kills then it's impossible that scum was invisible from the watcher)

 

[Hidden]

And what with the fact that I am town? I don't see how Kira is connected to me at all. I was seen visiting Laix, which I did. How the Tiger thing happened, I'm clueless about. He was first roleblocked, then redirected, then protected by me? Crazytown.

Cooo! (You were seen visiting tiger, not laix. Laix busdrove themselves and Tiger last night)

 

[Laix]

what if tiger is scum and natalija was seen visiting tiger because she was trying to protect him?

 

[Laix]

wait no because then ratchet wouldn't have got the result he did

 

[Hidden]

Cooo! (You were seen visiting tiger, not laix. Laix busdrove themselves and Tiger last night)

Coooooo! (Therefore, if Kira is scum Tiger did not get roleblocked. That means that Tiger actually lost a life. Which you claim to be protecting Tiger, therefore making it so they wouldn't lose a life)

 

[Laix]

FUCK THHIJOSA GAME NMOGGMHYGOD

 

[Natalija]

Cooo! (You were seen visiting tiger, not laix. Laix busdrove themselves and Tiger last night)

Yes, I said then he was protected by me. So he was not attacked by anyone since he literally got switched and protected. Unless if someone targeted Laix (Tiger). He wouldn't lose his bulletproof because I protected him. It doesn't add up either way.

 

[Hidden]

what if tiger is scum and natalija was seen visiting tiger because she was trying to protect him?

Coo! (No that is a possibility. Tiger is scum, natalija actually protected tiger, and tiger tried to kill someone else random last night and it didn't work)

Cooo! (The point being we always lynch one of Tiger/Kira and the game is solved in most instances)

 

[Natalija]

what if tiger is scum and natalija was seen visiting tiger because she was trying to protect him?

I visited you, ladybug

 

[Laix]

noTHHING MAKES SENSE

 

[Ratchet]

Cooo! (Hmm does a protect only save from one kill or just any kills against them?)

I've always known it as protecting against all kills.

 

[Laix]

I visited you, ladybug

WELL SOMEONE'S LYING

 

[Natalija]

Scum is laughing at us now at the sidelines, btw.

 

[Hidden]

Coo! (No that is a possibility. Tiger is scum, natalija actually protected tiger, and tiger's teammate tried to kill someone else random last night and it didn't work)

Cooo! (The point being we always lynch one of Tiger/Kira and the game is solved in most instances)

Cooo! (Edited this to be correct)

 

[Hidden]

Scum is laughing at us now at the sidelines, btw.

Coo! (Why are you laughing at us?)

 

[Natalija]

WELL SOMEONE'S LYING

Ratchet's result is correct, we align.

 

[Lord Melkor]

Coo! (Is there a world where Ratchet is lying? Probably not right?)

Unlikely to me but everything is possible.

 

[Natalija]

Unlikely to me but everything is possible.

You're the voice of reason, what do you think?

 

[Hidden]

Cooooo! (The point is no matter which one flips scum we're set pretty much)

 

[Hidden]

Coooo! COOO! (How did scum turn a dead game from yesterday into a loss?)

 

[Kira Yagami]

Coooo! COOO! (How did scum turn a dead game from yesterday into a loss?)

U can thank me for that

 

[Hidden]

Coooo! (Okosan really feels like Natalija as town would understand the situation better and how the game is pretty solved)

 

[Lord Melkor]

You're the voice of reason, what do you think?

Lynching Tiger indeed seems the best option info-wise.

 

[Hidden]

[Vote Lynch Kira]

Coooo! (Okosan thinks he wants to vote kira first now)

 

[Kira Yagami]

[Vote Lynch Kira]

Coooo! (Okosan thinks he wants to vote kira first now)

 

[Natalija]

Lynching Tiger indeed seems the best option info-wise.

Fine. I would rather kill the bird though. Tiger was spun around too much, and he gave town like reactions.

 

[Kira Yagami]

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[Ratchet]

I think, objectively, the min max route would be to lynch Tiger. If he flips town, well we lose a vanilla role. If he flips scum, we have a blocker in Kira who can block Laix, which, while wouldn't guarantee a failed kill, would provide a greater than 0-chance of one.

 

[Hidden]

Lynching Tiger indeed seems the best option info-wise.

Cooooo? Coo? (Yeah everyone should just pick Tiger or Kira based on whatever they feel like. Okosan personally is really feeling like Natalija is scum and Kira is her partner, so Okosan is picking Kira)

 

[Ratchet]

U can thank me for that

I think you mean me.

 

[Hidden]

I think, objectively, the min max route would be to lynch Tiger. If he flips town, well we lose a vanilla role. If he flips scum, we have a blocker in Kira who can block Laix, which, while wouldn't guarantee a failed kill, would provide a greater than 0-chance of one.

Coo! (Yeah the thing is Okosan thinks lynching Tiger is actually better, but Okosan feels like Kira/Natalija have more scum equity. So really whatever the thread feels is good. It legit doesn't matter all too much)

 

[Natalija]

Lol.

[vote lynch Okosan]

 

[Laix]

I think, objectively, the min max route would be to lynch Tiger. If he flips town, well we lose a vanilla role. If he flips scum, we have a blocker in Kira who can block Laix, which, while wouldn't guarantee a failed kill, would provide a greater than 0-chance of one.

smart scum would abstain from killing to secure a mislynch next phase

which is worse than a townie dying tonight

 

[Natalija]

But I still don't forget Platinum, John Wayne and Sigismund

 

[Kira Yagami]

Cooooo? Coo? (Yeah everyone should just pick Tiger or Kira based on whatever they feel like. Okosan personally is really feeling like Natalija is scum and Kira is her partner, so Okosan is picking Kira)

Okosan is being dumb
Youd lynch me the town roleblocker over the guy claiming vanilla town and has been inconistent with his claims and had heen roleblocked the night theres been no kills?

 

[Hidden]

Lol.

[vote lynch Okosan]

COO! (Imagine voting Okosan when you literally have a 50/50 flip to go for instead. LMAO)

 

[Laix]

[Vote Lynch Kira]

Coooo! (Okosan thinks he wants to vote kira first now)

wouldn't natalija be the smarter option lol?

 

[Hidden]

Okosan is being dumb
Youd lynch me the town roleblocker over the guy claiming vanilla town and has been inconistent with his claims and had heen roleblocked the night theres been no kills?

Coooo! (Kira Okosan actually wants to believes you, but Natalija is basically dragging your name through the mud right now with her scuminess so it's hard to actually choose)

 

[Natalija]

COO! (Imagine voting Okosan when you literally have a 50/50 flip to go for instead. LMAO)

You're terrible at reading. Either that or you're pretending. Either way I won't regret it.

 

[Hidden]

wouldn't natalija be the smarter option lol?

Coo! (No because between Tiger/Kira one is always scum. It's better to figure out that world first over anything else)