Game Favorites '22 - GROUP 2

[jinri]

I see iwandesu is trying to get out of the elimination group.

 

[Platinum]

@Iwandesu just quoting and responding to a bunch of old posts instead of interacting with the people in the thread right now

strong scum read

my first read of the day

This man is unaware of the fabled "Catching Up No Jutsu"

 

[Natalija]

@Iwandesu just quoting and responding to a bunch of old posts instead of interacting with the people in the thread right now

strong scum read

my first read of the day

He’s just broken like that… It’s NAI

 

[sworder]

This man is unaware of the fabled "Catching Up No Jutsu"

u can catch up at night, or u can read the thread and summarize all ur thoughts

responding 1 by 1 to posts that happened 1000 posts ago is bullshit blending lmao

 

[Platinum]

u can catch up at night, or u can read the thread and summarize all ur thoughts

responding 1 by 1 to posts that happened 1000 posts ago is bullshit blending lmao

It's literally Iwan's playstyle to the point its a meme. Just letting you know its not a tell for iwan; he does this literally every game forever.

 

[Nessos]

15 Pages behind group 1.... What a shame....

 

[sworder]

It's literally Iwan's playstyle to the point its a meme. Just letting you know its not a tell for iwan; he does this literally every game forever.

oh I see, thanks for sharing~

 

[Worm Juice]

Woah didn't get lynched. Thank you platinum.

 

[Didi]

oh I see, thanks for sharing~

how did you not know this
you've been on here playing mafia for a long time

 

[charles101]

Lol.

Lmao.

So, you're scum or what

 

[Juan]

@Platinum will be lynched.

someone get me that "i won" gif of walter white

 

[jinri]

Why did we lynch Platinum over Worm Juice again?

 

[sworder]

how did you not know this
you've been on here playing mafia for a long time

I've definitely not played enough with iwandesu to have a meta read on him, not to mention the last time i played was many years ago so I barely remember anyone's play style unless they were very good

 

[Juan]

anyway i'm very late but if plat flips scum i still want melkor investigated

 

[Iwandesu]

???????????

fake lack of interest is textbook mafia shit tf

Is he on the lynch block or nah ?

 

[Platinum]

Why did we lynch Platinum over Worm Juice again?

Because I was off so it was easy to wagon with no pushback. Open your 3rd eye and don't let me go unrevenganced.

 

[Iwandesu]

@Iwandesu just quoting and responding to a bunch of old posts instead of interacting with the people in the thread right now

strong scum read

my first read of the day

You never played a game with me right ?

 

[Platinum]

So, you're scum or what

I'm town but you'll find that out in like 5 minutes. I'm not like a mega power role, but I liked me role.

 

[sworder]

You never played a game with me right ?

we may have played in one of the favorites together maybe? not sure tbh lol

but i can't imagine scum will come out in your def like this so now I feel like my read was just wrong

 

[Juan]

Good post, could be a power wolfing play but a good post regardless

can we still lynch this one

 

[Platinum]

But little do you know, much like an orcust card, I am strongest when I am sent to the graveyard

 

[jinri]

Xadlin voted for Platinum.

Because I was off so it was easy to wagon with no pushback. Open your 3rd eye and don't let me go unrevenganced.

I will avenge you. My only regret is not pushing Xadlin at 20 minutes before votes closed and waiting until the 5 minute mark.

 

[Didi]

But little do you know, much like an orcust card, I am strongest when I am sent to the graveyard

nerd

 

[Platinum]

Xadlin literally opened with a wagon vote, buddying on me, then switched to me when I was offline. Ignored me pointing out his playstyle tells too. So yeah, please do lol.

 

[charles101]

I'm town but you'll find that out in like 5 minutes. I'm not like a mega power role, but I liked me role.

Sorry about that. I was talking about opinions based on what you saw though. Maaaaybe Shizune will let you sub back in since you haven't used any night ability anyway

 

[Xadlin]

No. I can’t decide and didn’t read enough so sheeping you it is. For once I see you posting somewhat

well, its my last fave game, so i wanna try to be better.
im slowly using things ive learned from other mafia games, so we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Juan]

But little do you know, much like an orcust card, I am strongest when I am sent to the graveyard

>yugioh player

yeah we're better off even if town

 

[Didi]

Gott strafe Xadlin
scum for sure

 

[Shizune]

Platinum (Viktor) was lynched!
​

Viktor
from League of Legends
durability rating: 2

[Passive - Siphon Power] - Viktor uses a special device to drain energy from nearby players. If another player visits Viktor during the night, he will temporarily gain an extra life for that night. Viktor can gain up to 2 lives from this ability in one night.
​

---

[Active - Physical - Death Ray] - During the day, Viktor charges the lazer hidden inside his synthetic arm. At night, Viktor can fire his lazer at another player, with different effects depending on how long he charged it for. If Viktor charged for 1 day, his lazer will apply a roleblock. If Viktor charged for 2 days, his lazer will apply a kill. If Viktor charged for 3 or more days, his lazer will apply a superkill.

[One Shot Active - Magical - Chaos Storm] - Viktor can conjure a singularity, enabling him to use [Death Ray] on up to 3 players that night. If Viktor is alive when the two Favorites games are recombined, he will gain an extra charge of this ability.
​

---

[Active - Physical - Gravity Field] - During the night, Viktor can deploy a gravity device around himself or another player. For that night, Viktor will learn the names of anyone who uses a physical ability on his target, and Viktor will mark those players with [Magnetize]. Viktor cannot use this ability 2 nights in a row.

[Magnetize] - If Viktor uses [Death Ray] on this player, its effects will be upgraded to the next charge level. This mark expires at the end of the next night.​

@Platinum my dear, I'm only here hosting this game today because of brilliant hosts like you who paved the way before me. You may have lost this fight, but you built this damn arena we're fighting in! You are the original, the one and only, spooky, scary host.

Now, sashay away.

Night 1 start. No more posting.​

 

[Platinum]

Sorry about that. I was talking about opinions based on what you saw though. Maaaaybe Shizune will let you sub back in since you haven't used any night ability anyway

I'm on vacation starting Sunday, so I'm probably not interested in that. I don't want to be a Melkor where people have to kill me 700 times to shut me up because i just sub into every spot.

Edit: Big ups @Shizune Thank you for hosting this game.

I like the creativity you have brought to favorites and look forward to seeing how it plays out as I get progressively drunker on my vacation.

 

[Iwandesu]

we may have played in one of the favorites together maybe? not sure tbh lol

but i can't imagine scum will come out in your def like this so now I feel like my read was just wrong

I see I see
Carry on the allmight IWANPOSTING

 

[Nessos]

Whats up @Ekkologix prepared for a Nonstop-game?


@Natalija ready to catch up with grroup 1?

 

[Natalija]

Whats up @Ekkologix prepared for a Nonstop-game?


@Natalija ready to catch up with grroup 1?

Ffs you did it. Leaving me in a thread with Susopp, it’s a thing of nightmares.

 

[Nessos]

Ffs you did it. Leaving me in a thread with Susopp, it’s a thing of nightmares.

You became one of my top townreads, with you saying you thought you we're scum.

Same happened in my PM. I thought I am CL, but no I am just Town able to invite other player to be able to talk during NP xD

 

[Nessos]

Why did @Natalija and my post got deleted

 

[Natalija]

You became one of my top townreads, with you saying you thought you we're scum.

Same happened in my PM. I thought I am CL, but no I am just Town able to invite other player to be able to talk during NP xD

Lol I thought I was a cultist too

Why did you invite Susopp? Why would you invite a town read in the first place, isn’t it better to invite someone who’s sus?

 

[Nessos]

@Iwandesu was it you?!?
We are allowed to post same goes for @Ekkologix !

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

I need a list of who can night post my bad

Nessos, Nat, and Usopp can night post @Shrike

 

[Natalija]

Undelete that stuffffff, silly mod

 

[Nessos]

I need a list of who can night post my bad

Nessos, Nat, and Usopp can night post @Shrike

Check my role PM

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

Check my role PM

I'm not in it xd

 

[Nessos]

@Alibaba Saluja I will support you! @Ekkologix too

 

[Shizune]

I should probably have clarified for everyone that @Nessos, @Natalija and @Ekkologix can post during the night phase tonight.

I apologize for any confusion.​

 

[Nessos]

@Alibaba Saluja vote for @Hidden he is scum fore Sure. He is the only bird in group 1

 

[Nessos]

Nope

Stop nightposting you are not worthy xD

 

[Natalija]

@Alibaba Saluja vote for @Hidden he is scum fore Sure. He is the only bird in group 1

I’m confident they don’t need our help, cause they’re doing better in any case. We just have a lame Plat lynch

I guess we use the time to do some work.

 

[Nessos]

Ffs you did it. Leaving me in a thread with Susopp, it’s a thing of nightmares.

I am going to bed, you and Usopp should enjoy your time together!

 

[Ekkologix]

What do you mean? You asked questions and people answered. The only person that didn't reply was hammer because you tagged them when they weren't around. If anything, I'm surprised you town-leaned Lord Melkor since he seemed to have ignored your second question after answering your first. Tagging people online doesn't count as attempting to have interactions. Here's what you posted when you returned:

you just brought 3 of my posts that were not answered. i expected questions, lots of them actually. there was an hour left so i could read up 10-15 pages and give read lists, at the same time reply to quotes if people answer me. when i came to the thread melkor told me worm and didi are leading. i wanted to know why for both and i read more to find out. i had a soft scum lean on worm at the time and a town read on didi. he also said that ppl r moving to plat/xadlin but not explain why. i had to read to get my own opinion. there was an hour left. plenty of time to read and interact in real time. if u were so interested jinri u could of asked me anything back then. why didnt u?

the town lean of melkor is independent to his response to me. tagging/quoting/asking questions are ways to start interactions. people ignoring me is not something in my control. you can argue this if i was the one ignoring

Reads for group 1 (doesn't help with our group).

the game isnt just out group. i started reading game 1 since last night and continued it today morning. solving both groups r our responsibility. i have no issue with people helping them more than here or vice versa if they have the time. town is town and i dont discriminate against hunting red or purple. we have a flip to work with in that game so it was easier to read the wagon. i think i can do both so i'll do it and the way i view this game is different from most probably and i dont mind being called out for it. if i feel like reading that game is affecting my play here, i'll slow it down a bit. i've done plenty this day and you are just discrediting my work now for whatever reasons. if u disagree with my reads from either group feel free to go ahead and discuss them. you have not yet attempted to solve my alignment or ask me why i town or scum read someone. my reads are open in the thread. go ahead jinri

This was answered by Lord Melkor and I.

he gave me a better answer. atleast he took the time to do so. every1 else ignored it

More group 1 shit when no one here cares about group 1.

i care about it jinri, and u should if u r town

Unanswered.

Filler question that you could've just looked at the threadmark for. Shizune answered a couple of posts afterward though.

Unanswered.

trying to get myself quickly into the thread is not a filler question
it was also unanswered. all the more reasons to read back. thread seemed pretty chaotic. i bet scums laughing at us this day 1. u could of told me if u really want to help me catch up, rather than nitpick at me for choosing to read cuz none is answering.

Natalija reacted. So did Badalight sort of.

this wasn't a question, it was a statement that someone gifted me something. reacting to this does nothing

hammer isn't here.

he was, actually. made couple of posts i saw when catching up that came after my initial question. and proceeded to also ignore the second one.
worm was also here and made couple of posts but ignored me too. ignored kira/WPK questions as well. worm/hammer were always a better lynch than plat and didi imo. xadlin/santi could work as lynches too. i had no idea where to place plat initially. some of his posts were slimy but doesnt warrant me lynching them day 1 compared to the others i had in PoE that r blatantly ignoring posts. they were just that much worst. surprised he was actually leading over them.

Prior to that these are your attempts to solve (being liberal):



Everything is looking a bit weak for you, Ekko. You don't seem to follow up on any of these in your posts.

Especially damning is you saying "tbh id just focus on this thread for now. read the other if u have spare time" and then doing the opposite.

I'm watching you on D2, Ekko. If you're still alive anyway.

i have time to read both threads this weekend so i will do so. i am also granted an ability to speak over the night so i will continue contributing to help the other thread when i like. i could care less how that shapes ur opinion of me. u have yet to try and solve my alignment and define why helping the other thread is not welcomed / none cares about it. i'll see u in day 2, jinri.

 

[Ekkologix]

Whats up @Ekkologix prepared for a Nonstop-game?


@Natalija ready to catch up with grroup 1?

excited to get flowa lynched from the other side of the universe

 

[Ekkologix]

Ffs you did it. Leaving me in a thread with Susopp, it’s a thing of nightmares.

not wanting to talk with susopp is anti town
finger of sus on nat

 

[Ekkologix]

You became one of my top townreads, with you saying you thought you we're scum.

Same happened in my PM. I thought I am CL, but no I am just Town able to invite other player to be able to talk during NP xD

i asked nitty why is my wincon not showing + my role color was different from the light blue town color in thread. im actually the reason why he corrected the color to dark blue

i'll take that free town cred. dont mind if i do yeehawww

 

[Ekkologix]

okay that was not kosher post but still

 

[Ekkologix]

He usually is THEE tinfoil king.

The fact he's taken such a backseat is alarming. I've never seen Usopp do this. Ever. Idk wtf transpired since I left NF, but I need answers to your playstyle switch. @Ekkologix

what kind of answers u need? does my playstyle matter if it ends up yeeting skoom?

 

[Ekkologix]

Can someone help me digest this

which part r u having trouble digesting

 

[Ekkologix]

Why did we lynch Platinum over Worm Juice again?

i was reading to find out
u tell me jinri

 

[Ekkologix]

@Alibaba Saluja vote for @Hidden he is scum fore Sure. He is the only bird in group 1

flowa first @Alibaba Saluja

 

[Natalija]

@Alibaba Saluja I'm not reading your thread...

 

[Natalija]

[Vote Lynch Platinum]

Is this your first post in the game? And your first post is also a vote upon Didi?

Reaction vote to Plat voting Didi. (?)

[change vote lynch platinum]


I had no real motivation for voting on Didi. seems good to jump on a lynch wagon on thé first day, so one can see which jumps on it, dissecting it and whom else gets a vote.

but plat has been on my ass, so im gonna vote for him. and im gonna stay on that.

i love you plat, but let old grudges be old

Annoyed by Plat (love history no doubt)

I am following you on that hill, I hope there is nice view from there.

Change Vote Lynch Platinum

Following Hero.

well whatever, better plat than didi i guess

[Vote Lynch Platinum]

Self explanatory.

Vote Lynch: Platinum

? Convinced he's scum for pulling up Soul's post in particular.

but my wagon is also still very close to WJ
though she did just get another vote from that 1 weeb I suppose

and fuck plat, let's make it happen

[Vote Lynch Platinum]

Following Ratchet.

Looked at page 30 and it seems people are voting Plat? is he the go?

Vote Lynch Platinum

Just....... Following.


I guess one of yall will be our next lynch.

 

[Ekkologix]

Day 1 Final count​

1. @Badalight - Santi
2. @Baroxio - Lord Melkor > Worm Juice
3. @charles101
4. @Didi - John Wayne > Lord Melkor > Worm Juice > Platinum
5. @DrProfessor83 - Worm Juice
6. @Ekkologix - DrProfessor > Hammer > Worm Juice
7. @Fang - DrProfessor > Lord Melkor
8. @Firestormer - Nessos > Hammer
9. @Franky
10. @hammer - Didi
11. @Hero - Platinum
12. @Iwandesu
13. @John Wayne - Nessos
14. @Juan - DrProfessor83 > Platinum
15. @Kira Yagami - Worm Juice
16. @Lalisa - Lord Melkor > Xadlin
17. @Lind - Lalisa > Worm Juice > Platinum
18. @Lord Melkor - Didi > Platinum
19. @Melodie
20. @Natalija - Xadlin > Lord Melkor
21. @Nessos - Rej
22. @Oddjutsu
23. @Platinum - Didi
24. @Ratchet - Worm Juice > Platinum
25. @Rej - Worm Juice
26. @Salah WG
27. @Santí
28. @SinRaven - Melodie
29. @Soul - DrProfessor >
30. @SoulKiller - Platinum
31. @sworder
32. @tinky winky - Didi
33. @WolfPrinceKiba - Didi
34. @Worm Juice - Franky > Didi
35. @Xadlin - Didi > Platinum
36. @Yo Tan Wa - Worm Juice

didi, hero, juan, lind, ratchet, melkor, SK, xadlin are voting plat

out of these down to yeet xadlin > sk/juan in that order probably

if u could add sm1 to the list who wud u add @Nessos @Natalija ?

 

[Natalija]

Day 1 Final count​

didi, hero, juan, lind, ratchet, melkor, SK, xadlin are voting plat

out of these down to yeet xadlin > sk/juan in that order probably

if u could add sm1 to the list who wud u add @Nessos @Natalija ?

Literally an hour ago you were saying SK is townie for putting himself on the lynch list.

 

[Ekkologix]

Literally an hour ago you were saying SK is townie for putting himself on the lynch list.

only if he knew plat was leading
his post asking for who to post tells me he isnt
so the vote is thoughtless

 

[Ekkologix]

only if he knew plat was leading
his post asking for who to post tells me he isnt
so the vote is thoughtless

he didn't*

 

[Ekkologix]

@Natalija answer my question pls when u get a chance

 

[Ekkologix]

nah it wasnt real, it was just something i made up lmao. i was town.

also

@Ekkologix thoughts on the EoD lynch?

from your outsider perspective, who's the most suspect or at least the tops of your list

flowa has to go imo

i have my full thoughts here on your game's day 1 https://www.fanverse.org/threads/favorites-22-group-2.1263996/post-64684947

 

[Natalija]

only if he knew plat was leading
his post asking for who to post tells me he isnt
so the vote is thoughtless

Eh I'm pretty sure everyone and their kittens talked about Plat. It's easy to tell who's leading EOD with one glance. He put himself on the lynch list.

@Natalija answer my question pls when u get a chance

Out of the Plat voters, am fine with Ratchet and SK to not be the lynch. Not that it means neither of them is scum, cause one probably is, but based on how the lynch played out their votes were semi-okay.

Probably for me Melkor and Xadlin. Hero started the wagon though, could be a misjudgment, could be power wolfing. Something to discuss tomorrow.

flowa has to go imo

i have my full thoughts here on your game's day 1 https://www.fanverse.org/threads/favorites-22-group-2.1263996/post-64684947

Stop being the Group 1 whisperer.

 

[Ekkologix]

Ekko is going straight to the scum/hostile indie pile for me. Did nothing on D1, gave a bunch of useless reads for group 1, did nothing here, didn't read back, says that he wanted real interactions, and then left without interacting much.

unqualified shade
1. the reads for group 1 is not useless. please feel free to argue otherwise
2. i've done plenty today in both games. this is baseless discrediting. from town PoV u shud not know if my reads r actually correct or not. i may or may not be on the right track. how can u outright claim they r useless, from a point of ignorance as town? you've still not argued against a single one of them btw. eagerly waiting on this day 2 jinri
3. you shaded me previously saying that i provided game 1 reads and not game 2 reads but when i provided my reads for this game u criticized me posting the reads and reading back, instead of actually argue against them and prodding me to see if they r genuine reads or not, its pretty hypocritical on ur part. u arent solving me, u are shading me for behavior thats completely NAI, if not townie, to actually read both games and provide read lists without being pressure for them. if you want to challenge my intention here, you question the reads integrity, not the post with the reads on it

 

[Ekkologix]

We did not succeed in keeping everyone to one big wagon haha.

why is that funny?

 

[Ekkologix]

You never played a game with me right ?

I see I see
Carry on the allmight IWANPOSTING

iwan self meta reading himself

soos

 

[Ekkologix]

Eh I'm pretty sure everyone and their kittens talked about Plat. It's easy to tell who's leading EOD with one glance. He put himself on the lynch list.

was impossible to tell on first glance, and i even read back. if he knew plat was leading then why even ask who to vote. or better yet why not contribute more to the EoD discussion

fwiw i thought worm had more votes. turns out the same players who voted worm, moved to plat, not new voters, resulting in this massive swing.

Out of the Plat voters, am fine with Ratchet and SK to not be the lynch. Not that it means neither of them is scum, cause one probably is, but based on how the lynch played out their votes were semi-okay.

meh

Probably for me Melkor and Xadlin. Hero started the wagon though, could be a misjudgment, could be power wolfing. Something to discuss tomorrow.

does hero even powerwolf. he looks town to me
so does melkor

what about juan?

Stop being the Group 1 whisperer.

i recommend everyone doing it too
share ur thoughts with them. dont be a tsundere. maybe u pick up something that they missed

also pls answer me nat, if u can add someone to the lynch group, who would u add?

 

[Natalija]

was impossible to tell on first glance, and i even read back. if he knew plat was leading then why even ask who to vote. or better yet why not contribute more to the EoD discussion

fwiw i thought worm had more votes. turns out the same players who voted worm, moved to plat, not new voters, resulting in this massive swing.


meh


does hero even powerwolf. he looks town to me
so does melkor

what about juan?


i recommend everyone doing it too
share ur thoughts with them. dont be a tsundere. maybe u pick up something that they missed

also pls answer me nat, if u can add someone to the lynch group, who would u add?

Oh. I forgot about Juan, kinda self explanatory. Would totally be up for lynching him.

On top of these, I'd add the usual suspects probably, you, Yo, Lind, JW.

 

[Natalija]

Would iwan be so careless to forget the whole day if he was scum? Or maybe that's what he wanted us to think?

 

[Natalija]

WPK is just sorta there, but he took a stance on Didi (and also suspecting Nessos, Worm and Rej - but reluctant on Rej).

Many players suspecting Didi, I hope that gets resolved tonight.

omg I isoed you cry me a river

jk let's be friends

(The thread was moving at a snail's pace and wagon was firmly on Didi at that point. Was being productive and looking into low-posters that had not been engaged with much yet rather than sit around and waste the end of the phase. Clicked on your posts. Saw some things that often are scum tells. Obviously if you're town you're going to read this as me "twisting your posts" but you have to admit that the "omg I am new here" is something scum do a lot as well as the implying to be town without expressly saying it as to avoid lie detectors. Also NGL the overly defensive post to the iso does not help your case tbh but I'm glad you replied to me k thx bye <3)

Didn't see this before, interesting. I didn't think you did much Baddie, but you did! Why have you voted a person who hasn't posted (Santi) instead of someone you actually suspected like Yo?

Milker, Plat, Tinky and WPK.

You didn't vote anyone in the end? Why

JW is also just sorta there, but he had that huge post - not sure what to think of it.

 

[Ekkologix]

Would iwan be so careless to forget the whole day if he was scum? Or maybe that's what he wanted us to think?

more NAI
i find his post self metaing himself worst

 

[Ekkologix]

Oh. I forgot about Juan, kinda self explanatory. Would totally be up for lynching him.

On top of these, I'd add the usual suspects probably, you, Yo, Lind, JW.

no hammer or worm?

 

[Natalija]

no hammer or worm?

Don't care about the players who don't play. Why the obsession with them?

 

[Ekkologix]

@Nessos

You think Hidden is Scum?

Birdies are scummy indeed

Btw @Platinum

I'm waring to play one of your games again

@Ekkologix

Gime me your thoughts about who you think is scum

@Ekkologix

Are you sure?

You think she is scum?

@Natalija

Lol

Legit laughed at that xD

do u not like ur group lol?

ali just vote flowa i copped her as skoom

I let you guys know when I got my night results. This is annoying me now.

u dont sound annoyed

Group 2 was such a mess lol. Ekko obv scum, though. Go get him @Ratchet .

lol

based on he reads for this group I have ekko as group 2 scum that decided to hunt for scum here rather than play there.

I did some very light skimming around posts where people tagged me.

im fine with that. i disagree, but you can have ur own opinion. if u have more time to read pls provide ur takes on our side

i don't like flower and the two people trying to instigate her lynch have no more credibility than the rest of us

i'm happy to lynch an active but minimal contributing player from the wagon, such as jojo

this needs to go, SPECIALLY in the off chance flowa somehow flips town

 

[Ekkologix]

Don't care about the players who don't play. Why the obsession with them?

but you just suggested xadlin, juan, JW. those barely play the game too

doesnt matter if they play or not, scum read is scum read

LG never played in the other game - was scum

 

[Ekkologix]

Let me catch up, and I got ya.

you cant post now, its the night phase. only me, nat and nessos can.

 

[Natalija]

but you just suggested xadlin, juan, JW. those barely play the game too

doesnt matter if they play or not, scum read is scum read

LG never played in the other game - was scum

That's false, Juan has nearly 50 posts and JW has 30. I know that's "not playing" for you but it's playing and reacting plenty.

Xadlin is to honor the ghost of @Platinum, especially since his voting reason sucks. The rest can be dealt with at night

 

[Natalija]

Oh and coasting is kinda Xadlin's scum meta, while Worm just coasts in general