Didi
*
this is completely false
we only mislynched day 1 and 2
every day from then on our lynch was on scum
You already won, no need to spread false information to prop yourself up
-
Xenforo 2.3 Update
We have now moved the board to Xenforo 2.3. If you see bugs or have problems with the new software, please report them as soon as possible ;)
The update includes better search, trends, new blogging systems, 101 mini-updates, better performance for newer hardware, password-less logins and much more. One thing to point out: We now allow crypto donations ;)
Help with Donations ~ Better than Ads :)
this is completely false
we only mislynched day 1 and 2
every day from then on our lynch was on scum
You already won, no need to spread false information to prop yourself up
Didi
*
Executes were bad but most of the time the execute targets were only townies so that's not really town's fault on the choice, just townies fault on being inactive
I think townies want all the power of night actions like superkills, but then they get upset if the mafia can survive those superkills, or if the game is actually balanced around those kills.
Didi
*
Listen Nitty, it's simple: all my stuff should work and all stuff sent my way should fail
and if not you're a garbage host
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
All this talk about mis-excecutes.
The excecute is going to hit town like 95%+ of the time. Pretty much by design you would expect the candidates to be 100% town nearly every day. It is a mildly scum sided mechanic that I had assumed was designed to force mafia to play and not slank(so we could find them), and help clear town afkers out with out wasting more valuable town kills on them.
balance wise it should have been calculated as a kill for scum(or more specifically a fraction of a kill for scum).
any scum that got hit by it is a huge blunder by that specific scum, not some sort of normal distribution.
Badalight
JOJO
Can't really blame us on the executes tbh. What do you expect? We were choosing between 3 people with zero posts 90% of the time, lol. "Aw man, you should have known that Melodie's 1 post was scummier than franky's 2 posts. You're so dumb!" Also, the spirit of that ability was to get rid of inactives anyway not to scum hunt. It also doesn't help that rules were modified to not really make executing scum that beneficial for town as their abilities were given back to the scum team.
Mislynch on day 1 and day 2 were mistakes sure. Night lynch was 40% scum so hard to say that was really a mislynch either. The only mistake after that was the Soul lynch.
I think in terms of lynches town played nearly perfectly. Actions are where town fucked up. You had nessos adding 2 scum to the night lynch, town doctor protecting a scum all game, one vig attacking another vig, etc.
Mislynch on day 1 and day 2 were mistakes sure. Night lynch was 40% scum so hard to say that was really a mislynch either. The only mistake after that was the Soul lynch.
I think in terms of lynches town played nearly perfectly. Actions are where town fucked up. You had nessos adding 2 scum to the night lynch, town doctor protecting a scum all game, one vig attacking another vig, etc.
Counting the execution as a mafia kill would be ridiculous, it helped town’s POE and hit scum a few times.
I’m just saying, town did not play so well that they “deserved” to win this game. If you want powerful night actions like superkills, then the trade off is you have to use them wisely or the game will be balanced to punish you. If you lynch pretty well but then waste all your superkills, that’s just going to balance itself out.
Didi
*
btw @Shizune
please never do that lynchpool mechanic again
I wonder what you think about it upon reflection
before the game I thought it might be interesting because you can actively track who are dodging the lynchs and it makes people culpable for mislynches (but then again, both those things can be true without the mechanic too)
but during the game I absolutely hated it
oh great, this person everyone is scumreading can't be lynched, how wonderful
please never do that lynchpool mechanic again
I wonder what you think about it upon reflection
before the game I thought it might be interesting because you can actively track who are dodging the lynchs and it makes people culpable for mislynches (but then again, both those things can be true without the mechanic too)
but during the game I absolutely hated it
oh great, this person everyone is scumreading can't be lynched, how wonderful
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
@Shizune I just want to vanity search my name in the scum chat
so you can add me if you think its worth my time
so you can add me if you think its worth my time
What are some examples of times that actually happened, though?
Didi
*
Don't dodge the question
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
Counting the execution as a mafia kill would be ridiculous, it helped town’s POE and hit scum a few times.
I am used to talking about kill power in percentages. I think treating it like .3 of a kill for scum isnt insane.
Its supposed to hit town basically every cycle. Just doesnt typically hit players scum would care to kill. still basically an extra mislynch each cycle.
all good though, my main point was that multiple people have brought up excecutes hitting town as evidence of poor town play, or strong scum play.
it was working as intended by my estimation.
Didi
*
I remember us wanting to lynch JW real bad and him not being available
and d1 here was really annoying with only like 3 people from Group 2 being eligible (which ofc since I didn't care about group 1 was annoying)
part of why the Soul lynch happened tbh
and d1 here was really annoying with only like 3 people from Group 2 being eligible (which ofc since I didn't care about group 1 was annoying)
part of why the Soul lynch happened tbh
Draekke
The 10th Man
Hard to blame for some of the big super kills town had by dying early or being inactive, in the same vein though.
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
I agree, I dont think the team that won was undeserving, or that my team played so insanely better that we were robbed of a win.
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
I also dont think the special lynch mechanic added anything to the game, aside from novelty.
I limited the lynch for 2 reasons:
1. To nerf the lynch a little bit to balance out the town’s powerful night actions
2. To help keep the game focused/guided. Huge games usually have a big problem with people feeling lost, or unsure of who to lynch next
I feel the lynch mechanic succeeded at both goals, but I agree it has some inherent frustrations and it’s the sort of thing that can only be done for one game, because after that the cracks will start to really show.
1. To nerf the lynch a little bit to balance out the town’s powerful night actions
2. To help keep the game focused/guided. Huge games usually have a big problem with people feeling lost, or unsure of who to lynch next
I feel the lynch mechanic succeeded at both goals, but I agree it has some inherent frustrations and it’s the sort of thing that can only be done for one game, because after that the cracks will start to really show.
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
Imagine if there was a mechanic where the abilities of exectued townies could be randomly assigned to the remaining town players still left alive. 
The idea was that if someone repeatedly dodged the lynch, the town could superkill or night lynch them, making lynch dodging an inadvisable play to begin with
But then the town lost all their superkills and the night lynch early lol
But then the town lost all their superkills and the night lynch early lol
Imagine if there was a mechanic where the abilities of exectued townies could be randomly assigned to the remaining town players still left alive.
What point are you trying to make here?
Draekke
The 10th Man
How many mafia were realistically taken out by town actions? Seems to me mostly was threadplay and the Lynch, along with some sleuthing of targeting/tracking/watching.
Draekke
The 10th Man
I think it’s rather obvious.
I think Tinky Winky in the Finals was the only mafia member killed by townies
Wait no that wasn’t townies that was Didi LMAO
Didi
*
I think he's just being passive aggressive about how mafia got compensation for inactivity whereas inactive townies seem to be always accepted as part of the game and thus zero compensation
Draekke
The 10th Man
Yes, so my point is that clearly the town night actions weren’t strong enough to garner a Lynch restriction to make up for those actions.
Badalight
JOJO
I didn't like the lynch mechanic but its favorites and there is almost always some weird gimmick so I thought it was fine in that aspect. I just think making the lynch weaker when scum has so many options to dodge the lynch already makes for a difficult combo to overcome. You're then putting a lot of weight into vigs who could easily just die early or hit the wrong targets - almost deciding the game based off a few stray actions.
Btw what other superkills did town have? I had one, but I only ever had one chance to use it and that was only because of the busdrive which basically forced me to target FS or start over.
Btw what other superkills did town have? I had one, but I only ever had one chance to use it and that was only because of the busdrive which basically forced me to target FS or start over.
Didi
*
I compensated townies for inactivity the entire game lol. Repeatedly townies would miss actions or misunderstand their actions and I would let them use the action twice the next cycle to make up for the error. When Vanya’s mason partners bailed, I heavily compensated Vanya. I’m sure there’s more examples that aren’t coming to mind right now.
Badalight
JOJO
AND BADALIGHT
Draekke
The 10th Man
Sadly Vanya was fairly useless outside of being confirmed and his couple of Lynch pool adds.
Didi
*
Hidden
A Human from the Present
My only problem with the the lynch thing is like, mafia could just be outed and refuse to join the wagon. Then the only way to deal with them is night actions. And while yes there are roles that can modify the lynch pool or kill mafia at night, if we get to a point where those get hit first through mostly random chance, you're basically forced to scrap the whole thing midgame otherwise the game is unplayable
Hidden
A Human from the Present
Which, tbh, would just feel bad because mafia at that point would 100% complain lmao
I was fully prepared to scrap it and did as soon as it showed signs of messing with the game
Badalight
JOJO
ALL ME
I was right on literally all of my scum reads minus Santi and hit scum with all except 1 of my night actions ;(((
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
Honestly, I liked the lynch pool mechanic. It made bandwagoning a double edged sword and aided in tracking down scum. Sure, the downside meant that scum could manipulate themselves to be clear of the lynch, but I think overall it was a neat mechanic and balanced nicely in my opinion.
Not actually making a point, I just want to imagine a world where townies get to reuse some of the misused / unused abilities of executed townies. Would that be too powerful in a game such as this? I don't really know. Every role felt at least potentially strong in certain ways, but there were definitely some definitive "power" roles among town so spreading the love might have helped prevent the issue where town became overly reliant on the lynch to accomplish anything in a game where each mafia could stop the lynch at least twice.
Not actually making a point, I just want to imagine a world where townies get to reuse some of the misused / unused abilities of executed townies. Would that be too powerful in a game such as this? I don't really know. Every role felt at least potentially strong in certain ways, but there were definitely some definitive "power" roles among town so spreading the love might have helped prevent the issue where town became overly reliant on the lynch to accomplish anything in a game where each mafia could stop the lynch at least twice.
Badalight
JOJO
Wait who had the other superkill?
Also are we counting my superkill because that was basically impossible to pull off even if I chose targets that weren't being actively sussed in the thread and never once used my defensive night action.
Which I think is fine btw but it is admittedly a very very veeeery conditional superkill.
Also are we counting my superkill because that was basically impossible to pull off even if I chose targets that weren't being actively sussed in the thread and never once used my defensive night action.
Which I think is fine btw but it is admittedly a very very veeeery conditional superkill.
Hidden
A Human from the Present
Yeah I don't thnk it went badly here, I'm just saying it had the potential to. If the game state was more like, here are 7 scum that are outted and open wolfing, knowing they're safe because of the lynch mechanics, then you come in and change it like you did here, it could lead to some not great situations. Not because it would be unfair, but because the mafia would a thousand percent all start raging in pms lolI was fully prepared to scrap it and did as soon as it showed signs of messing with the game
Balancing a setup in theory is very possible and is what we strive for
The reason we say it can’t actually be balanced in reality is because the setup is single-use, meaning if fringe scenarios occur like all the town vigges dying early, that’s just going to be what happens and there’s no changing it or replaying it
So we can absolutely balance the setup, it just won’t always play out in a balanced or fair way
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
How did mafia take the new crowning mechanics? Was that always a planned portion of the game or was it a spontaneous decision?
Hidden
A Human from the Present
also tbh a more minor thing about it is it makes vote power roles actually nearly worthless lol. And actually maybe detrimental at times. If I have (taking it to an extreme) like 15 vote power and can decide a lynch myself, me voting for anyone but the main wagon actually screws town because it narrows the pool way too much. That's not as huge a deal with smaller vote power roles, but realistically if you're town with those you never actually WANT the vote to be the second wagon because of your voting power
Hidden
A Human from the Present
Technically I got one but it required Draekke using his actions on me
Draekke
The 10th Man
And you were blocked to oblivion at the time lol
Draekke
The 10th Man
Whoever was Viktor had a SK I believe.
Badalight
JOJO
I don't think it was balanced but I am shocked at how down to the wire it came regardless. Also balancing a game of this magnitude is a nigh impossible and uneviable position that I would never want to have to do myself. And I do think the right team won at the end of the day.
But this is what I’m saying. Town wants superkills but then doesn’t want to rely on those superkills. They just wanna have free superkills for no reason
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
this actually happened and the next days vote was opened to every player again. The only issue here is this wasnt clear before it happened.
Didi
*
ye I inherently see the execute as a way to trim the fat and get rid of useless non-contributing townies without them derailing the main lynch
What would be vig-targets in other games because you don't want to waste lynch info on them because you gleam nothing from it
Of course it can hit lowlaying scum but with the info being open it's unlikely for scum to be an option unless they play bad
imo
I don’t think this is arguable. If the town had tried to coordinate their flashes and their watchers, mafia would barely have been able to move in this game. Most townies died without flashing. Badalight defensively flashed ONE night and it literally had everyone thinking he was immortal. Now imagine every townie actually flashes, and on top of that the watchers and vigges actually function. Mafia would probably have lost.
Hidden
A Human from the Present
yeah but I also saw it where there were only like, 4 players as a choice. Narrowing it, even if it isn't a ridiculously smaller group like 2 people or something, is still not great for town probably.
Notably though you are probably more likely to get those scum that are hiding by sitting on the second wagon which does help balance it a little bit
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
I tried to run a mafia game exactly twice. In my first ever mafia game (Ed, Edd n Eddy), all of the indies won and everybody else died. Townies lost first, the Ed Gang became a mafia, then immediately suicided into the original mafia (The Kanker Sisters + Ed's Brother). The indies were practically untouchable all game.
What I'm trying to say is, nobody is perfect, least of all me. Take my criticism with a grain of salt. Ultimately what matters is that people have a good time. And I think that this game achieved that. It was unique, and in a good way at that. Hopefully the next game is even better.
What I'm trying to say is, nobody is perfect, least of all me. Take my criticism with a grain of salt. Ultimately what matters is that people have a good time. And I think that this game achieved that. It was unique, and in a good way at that. Hopefully the next game is even better.
Didi
*
Weren’t several scum executed though?
Why are you being so defensive, that post wasn't even aimed at you
and yes
those scum played badly
it's really not hard to not be in the bottom 3 posters
Badalight
JOJO
This was a well timed flash ;o
Also don't know how literally no one brought up the possibility that I flashed. I figured everyone must have forgotten about the mechanic, lol.
Badalight
JOJO
Hot take: Faction kills are inherently a scum mechanic. Lynches are inherently a town mechanic.
Badalight
JOJO
I'm gonna make a mafia game where you can only lynch towns and you can only faction kill scum.
Hidden
A Human from the Present
especially in things like scum actively dodging lynches which I don't think is too far fetched
Hidden
A Human from the Present
disagree. prove me wrong
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
I flashed in order to take no damage from the delayed superkill (thinking I could watch it and find out who sent it).
Flash was a great mechanic, but it's a stretch to say town could have coordinate it's uses. It's one time use. Of the top of my head, only the role introduced mid way through the game with Nessos's revival had the ability to recycle them (granted, I haven't paid a lot of attention to revealed town roles). Without such an ability, town can't coordinate jack, since any townie who used flash would immediately become a target for mafia afterwards (especially when mafia have people that automatically know whenever someone uses flash), unless you're saying that we can use defensive flashes on other people...which was never my understanding of the mechanic.
Flash was better on mafia, since they could use it to ensure their kills go through while also have access to roles that recycle them regularly. In fact, even if townies somehow coordinated defensive flash use, mafia could just counter with offensive flash use and render townie flash impotent. Plus, flash is perfect to use when you know your being targeted, which is almost always going to be the case more for mafia (who have greater surviavability and are statistically less likely to be targeted randomly) than town. Generally, townies just die without warning, afterall.
Flash was a great mechanic, but it's a stretch to say town could have coordinate it's uses. It's one time use. Of the top of my head, only the role introduced mid way through the game with Nessos's revival had the ability to recycle them (granted, I haven't paid a lot of attention to revealed town roles). Without such an ability, town can't coordinate jack, since any townie who used flash would immediately become a target for mafia afterwards (especially when mafia have people that automatically know whenever someone uses flash), unless you're saying that we can use defensive flashes on other people...which was never my understanding of the mechanic.
Flash was better on mafia, since they could use it to ensure their kills go through while also have access to roles that recycle them regularly. In fact, even if townies somehow coordinated defensive flash use, mafia could just counter with offensive flash use and render townie flash impotent. Plus, flash is perfect to use when you know your being targeted, which is almost always going to be the case more for mafia (who have greater surviavability and are statistically less likely to be targeted randomly) than town. Generally, townies just die without warning, afterall.
Lord Melkor
Well-Known Member
Can you post your role?
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
Vergil
from Devil May Cry
durability rating: 3
[Innate - Quick Study] - Vergil can learn new skills and techniques at unnaturally fast rates. If Vergil is gifted a limited-use ability, he will gain an extra use of it.
[Passive - Iaijutsu] - Vergil is a highly skilled swordsman, protecting him against being disarmed.
[Active - Physical - Yamato] - During the night Vergil can attack another player with his sword, roleblocking them. If Vergil uses this ability on the same player 2 nights in a row, he will kill them instead. If Vergil uses this ability on the same player 3 or more nights in a row, he will superkill them. Vergil cannot use this ability the same night as [Riposte].
[Active - Physical - Riposte] - During the night Vergil can use a defensive technique to counter any harmful physical abilities used on him. If Vergil counters another player, he will permanently mark them with [Exposed Weakness]. Vegil cannot use this ability 2 nights in a row, and he cannot use this ability and [Yamato] in the same night.
[Exposed Weakness] - If Vergil uses [Yamato] on this player, its effects will be upgraded to their next stage. This mark is consumed when it triggers.
[One Shot Active - Magical - Mirage Blades] - During the night Vergil can conjure spectral swords to extend his range. That night, Vergil can use [Riposte] on up to 2 other players in addition to himself, countering harmful physical abilities used on them and applying [Exposed Weakness] to the countered players. If Vergil is alive when the two Favorites games are recombined, he will gain an extra charge of this ability.
[One Shot Active - Tactical - Devil Trigger] - During the night Vergil can unleash his demonic powers. For that night and the next cycle, Vergill will be protected against redirects and roleblocks. If Vergil kills another player while this ability is active, its duration will be extended by one cycle (this effect can only trigger once). If Vergil dies during this ability, his death will be delayed until this ability ends. If Vergil is role crushed, he can still use this ability, and doing so will cure him of the role crush. If Vergil is alive when the two Favorites games are recombined, he will gain an extra charge of this ability.
well idk what the conversation is about
i will address dis one cause ekko and sk got 5 lives towards the end of the game so that was more of a late game thing rather than at the start. ekko def coulda died to a SK before the merge.
Town / andrew greves got 7 lives at one point lol
Natalija
Favourite Worst Nightmare
Yeah, that was neverrrrr going to happen. All the people who wanted Susopp lynched were dead, and all which was left was outed scum Karma who town didn’t even consider to listen to
Draekke
The 10th Man
It’s even crazier that they were able to get 5 lives later into the game lol. Everyone was on SK’s trail and apparently things weren’t working on him. Ekko played well to get into town’s pocket, but still. At the end of the game he could have tanked an SK, so that’s pretty hard to deal with lol
hmm not really, i dont think its absurd esp when its that late in the game I suppose. Eventually like a life would hit them right? Thats how i see it anyways
Badalight
JOJO
Wait is Draekke's avatar a FACE!!#DASDFAS
Didi
*
Clearly this game severely unbalanced because you gave Badaroach a townrole
That goes against the very balance of the universe
That goes against the very balance of the universe
AndrewGreve
Well-Known Member
prob better to say I had 6 lives. since one of the 7 lives was mechanically a pending super kill.
Baroxio
Unlimited Strategy Works
Bada is just into the femboys. I can't flame him for that.ok well its like 3 am for me so its prob like 5 am for you which means ya ima head to sleep
also i want ppl to flame bada for this
Badalight
JOJO
True
what's up with that
can we even consider this a favorites if I'm not mafia or game ending indie
Badalight
JOJO
i liked when i dropped the moon
i mean no one else liked it, but i did
i mean no one else liked it, but i did
no, i liked it too
Badalight
JOJO
I'm mad at nitty because he purposefully and willingly ignored my messages and then came up with an excuse that "I've tried responding 4 times and it hasn't been working"
like, I wasn't born yesterday!!! ;(
like, I wasn't born yesterday!!! ;(
No I promise this really happened
I just remember like that night, I went and looked and saw I had never replied to you, and thought "that's weird" because I was sure I replied at work that day, but whatever, replied and went to bed
I wake up and it's STILL not there
After I replied that day I checked back like 10 times to make sure it stayed
but to be fair Bada you asked some dumb questions
like you fully asked me what poison did on like cycle 8 LMAO
like you fully asked me what poison did on like cycle 8 LMAO
Yeah, I agree with you in that I'm not really here for the gloating of Purple over Red about what Real Mafia entails. For context Michelle, Ekkologix is a player who has recently gone on several tirades over mechanics affecting the game and it not coming down to the power of threadplay or whatever. Here mechanics obviously helped Purple win. He is by no means exclusive on this, as in, he is not the only player who acts like this, but I think it is pretty clear at this point his contention is only when mechanics hinder his chances of winning. Otherwise it's all fine. I find that stance hypocritical personally, but he's not the only one as I say.
For what it's worth, I thought you played well. Had you as a Town read until I realised you were running off the same narrative that all of Red were, I think I struggle to read you anyway honestly. Need to figure that one out. You were also best girl Y'shtola.
yeah don't let Ekko talk shit to you about anything in this game because I promise he was having meltdowns over every little mechanic that didn't go his way, and he would CURRENTLY be having a meltdown if he hadn't won